'09 Camaro V6

[Wiz85]

Hey guys, I just came back from a FSAE race event and at Michigan Int Speedway they had a couple future production cars, i.e the Camaro. I got to talk to one of the engineers that helped with the build of the car and he gave me some insight. Unfortunately the Camaro I saw was a few years old and was (still is) a test vehicle to try to work out all of the bugs. The car had all kinds of sensor hook-ups in the engine and around the body. I got to sit in it and I loved it, though the guy said that since it's fairly not new, the interior has slight design changes compared to that one. So, about the engine, since the RS's will have a V6, well fortunately the representive said it's a 3900 DOHC 60 degree making 300 horses at 5500 revs or so. I couldn't give me the true numbers and specs, but this is what I could get out of him. They took the LQ1 heads, designed them and bolted them onto GM's 3900 block. I think this is freakin' sweet. This means that GMPP will have these heads in stock soon as the Camaro is out and I would be willing to purchase some of the heads. I tried to look for the head casting number but couldn't find it, so here's some pics.









Have two more close up engine shots, but I do't think they give away any details that I know of.

[bszopi]

Geez, imageshack is slow as hell in showing the pictures. I've had the engine shot opened for 3 min now, and its still not even to the plenum.

Anyway, are you sure it was a 3900? And I can tell you its not reworked LQ1 heads. I'm guessing its most likely the 3.6L DOHC VVT engine, or at least the 3.6L heads on a 3900 block. But again, the 3.6L overall is such a better design than the 3900 that I just have a problem thinking its a 3900. There is a chance that they punched out the 3.6L DOHC to 3.9L...

[Wiz85]

Well, as usual when you talk to the engineers behind prototypes, they don't really give you straight answers. What I first asked the guy was, is it a 3600 or a 3900 60 degree V6. First he made a (it's complicated) face and then said, "Welllllllllllll.........it's a 3900, but the heads are of course DOHC completely redesigned compared to the old DOHC heads." Maybe b/c I'm young and he was just trying to refer to the LQ1 motors to get me to understand. But I think it's either a LY7 motor punched out or it's a LZ8 motor. And researching the LZ8 motor and since it's roughly rated for 245 ponies, this guy did say that he has seen the dyno graph of this Camaro motor and making 300 hp. Sweet!

[Joseph Upson]

It's probably the exact same 3.6L platform installed in the rear wheel drive Cadillac CTS, no manufacturer that I'm aware of can afford to throw away the kind of time and investment necessary to cross adapt, or reinstate older less efficient technology to the 3.9L when a 3.9 DOHC is just as simple as a bore, stroke or both change to the current 3.6L already in production and laying down the stated numbers. It just doesn't make sense to do it any other way.

Maybe they have another engine intended for it and it is more likely to be the 3900 as is. Perhaps that's what the HO version they built in 06 will go in since the G6 hasn't seen it since then.

[3400-95-Modified]

I like how every bolt is marked to tell if it has backed out any... You know that job was given to the intern... LOL

Now are these DI motors or have then not even gone to that realm yet? Because if I'm not mistaken a DI motor will make much more power that a FI motor of the same form.

[IsaacHayes]

Very interesting. Maybe tomorrow when the images load I can check them out... LOL

[Joseph Upson]

I like how every bolt is marked to tell if it has backed out any... You know that job was given to the intern... LOL

Now are these DI motors or have then not even gone to that realm yet? Because if I'm not mistaken a DI motor will make much more power that a FI motor of the same form.

That's another reason the engine in the car is almost certainly the caddi 3.6L because the 300hp version is DI.

On a different note, what a smack in the face it must be to have this thing pull along side the mid 90s to early 2000 F body cars with 2.1 less litres and a V6 to boot having more or as much horsepower as the 350 TPI predecssor. That's about 85 hp per litre which means the same motor at 5.7L would be laying down 482 hp.

[LeftVentricle]

On a different note, what a smack in the face it must be to have this thing pull along side the mid 90s to early 2000 F body cars with 2.1 less litres and a V6 to boot having more or as much horsepower as the 350 TPI predecssor. That's about 85 hp per litre which means the same motor at 5.7L would be laying down 482 hp.

DOHC vs. pushrod, apples to oranges.

This confirms an "RS" type trim level. If the six makes three hundred horses, what engines will be used for the Z28 and SS trims? I'd heard a while back they'd use the LS4 in Z28, but that also makes 300hp, albeit about fifty more foot-pounds of torque though.

[pocket-rocket]

If I were given the decision, I would take the v6 over the v8. 50 lbs/ft can be made up easy enough to not worry about the MPG loss in the v8 vs v6 and still be a blast to drive if the LS4 deal is the case, and the 300 hp v6 is accurate.

[Joseph Upson]

DOHC vs. pushrod, apples to oranges.

This confirms an "RS" type trim level. If the six makes three hundred horses, what engines will be used for the Z28 and SS trims? I'd heard a while back they'd use the LS4 in Z28, but that also makes 300hp, albeit about fifty more foot-pounds of torque though.

I'm talking older cars during the pre 300 hp V6 era vs. the new still small but higher output V6. The fact still remains that a DOHC 3.6L V6 is making over 300 hp (and capable of more) naturally aspirated at 2.1L less than the small block that's a lot of power to attribute to just DOHC status, the old ZR1 with DOHC 5.7L was only making about 385 hp.

A lot of small block chevy owners still don't respect the little 60 degree V6, yet that is. The 60 degree v6 of that era was nowhere near 300hp that's why I thought of how embarrassing such an encounter would turn out to be for the V8 owner in that situation.

[Z26-T]

Or maybe he was lying and all it is, is the 3.6 DI engine?

When it comes to hp, we all have to bow down to the 2.0 DI turbo engine... 260 hp to 122 CI... 2.1 Hp per CI *drool*

Sorry to get off the v6 topic... Just with how technology is getting these days, won't be long until our 60*s will have around 400 hp and get 30 mpg

[gpse3400]

The LS4 was purposely choked at the intake manifold for whatever reason. It comes off the bat with the old LS6 heads which are one of the better flowing heads of the LSX. Fuel economy is pretty good on these engines. Right on par with a multivalve V6 with or without DOD. But not as good as an old 2.8/3.1... The LSX is not going anywhere anytime soon...

The 3900 came out and GM was so pleased with it, but now as far as I know its only running in the Chevy Minivan and the Impala... The 3.6 has been reworked since it's intro around '04-'05 and it makes me wonder if the 3500/3900 is done as those engines have not been touched since then....

I do hear that an LTZ Monte Carlo with a 3900 will move to a high 14. So If the 3900 goes the dodo, it's not for a lack of power... I drove a minivan with that engine, had more power than the chassis could bear....

[Z26-T]

The 3900 came out and GM was so pleased with it, but now as far as I know its only running in the Chevy Minivan and the Impala... The 3.6 has been reworked since it's intro around '04-'05 and it makes me wonder if the 3500/3900 is done as those engines have not been touched since then....

That's good and bad at the same time... Great because VVT = better economy/power. Bad for us because we're going to run out of things to put on our 3X00s . We may have to get rid of our cars one of these days and trade to a VVT. I just wonder how hard it would be to trick a new PCM... guess it won't be too terrible because things will actually be made for them. obd 1.5...

[gpse3400]

Well sake of the gasoline internal combustion engine, I belive that direct injection, low friction, less rotating parts, and low weight(engines and the cars they go into) is the way to go. Who knows maybe they are making a DI head for the pushrod 60 v6 and the LSX which on both would be a very nice thing to see.

For comparison I just saw the EPA numbers for the Pontiac G8 V6 and V8.
V6 3.6 -17/25 V8 6.0- 15/24. These numbers would be way lower if that car didn't weight 2 tons....

Something I keep saying but few don't seem to understand or want to absorb(esspecially ricers)......
It is not so how many cylinders or the displacment size of the engine you have but how much weight and drag the engine has to work against. You make the engine big to get the kind of torque you want that you cannot get from a smaller engine. Horsepower is a biproduct. More cylinders aid in operational smoothness as displacment increases.

FYI the EPA changed thier fuel economy standards so when I think about it.. a 3500(VVT and Non VVT) and a 3900 might acutally be more fuel efficient than an old 2.8/3.1. Maybe even GEN3's

Another thing these overly elaborate automatics have to go. I see no place for an 8 speed gear box for a CAR. Maybe on a 60,000 lbs truck... Not a car... Plus the weight... As long as you have overdrive you will have your fuel economy. You don't get better fuel economy by hanging out in underdrive for a 1000 years. Professional Truck Drivers can even back me up on this. And if your engine is weak no gearing in the world is going to help it move all that much quicker...Also considering the tie up between gears during shifting....the torque converter is a wonderfull thing....

A 5 speed auto is good for a new Mustang V6....Those who have driven know what I mean......

The DI 3.6 is a nice engine. The DI is something I would definately go for.

The VVT helps but I don't think as much as the redesign of the intake, heads and exhaust. Though differnt thatn the VVT3500 and the 3900, the regular 3500 is pretty good the way it is...Plenty of power and you will get over 30MPG in a 3500lbs Malibu... The 4T45-E is well mated to the 3500 also.

HPTuners can help with the tuning of the newer engines.

Finer tuning and better catalysts will clean up the air even more, but there will always be a carbon emmission.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CARBON PERIOD!!! .....as matter cannot be created or destroyed but converted in the form of work which requires ENERGY!!!!!! AND THE BIPRODUCT IS HEAT!!!!!!! I was never good in physics and even I understand this!

Maybe we should all ride farting cows and then instead of CO, CO2, and NOx we can have doody and methane!!! It'll be just like living on Venus!!!..I think... Eitherway its a doody filled idea.....And I need to go to sleep...

[pocket-rocket]

Maybe we should all ride farting cows and then instead of CO, CO2, and NOx we can have doody and methane!!!

I bet my cow gets more farts per lbs of grain then yours does!

In response to the comment about running out of stuff to put on your 3x00, I've had this problem with my DOHC for a long time now I love the engine and for us DOHC owners, it's just a shame that it didn't take off like the pushrods have. Heck, even the competitor, the SHO, had more of an aftermarket then the DOHC cars GM made did.