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  • #16
    Originally posted by TGP37 View Post
    ....
    I'm thinking about tapping the plenum about 1 inch past the goofy PCV port and spray in the neck of the plenum from directly above.
    That may be a good spot. On this one I still have the EGR (for now) but the SC kit uses that space.

    1999 GLS MP90 supercharged / 2003 GL MP62 supercharged / 2004 GLS stock
    Magnuson MP90 / TOG's / 3 in. Magnaflow exhaust / MSD ignition / LS1 MAF / Racetronix pump / HP Tuners / TCE 68mm TB / 36 lb Inj
    = Best track time: 12.951 @ 104.48, 1.839 60 ft. (Beech Bend Raceway Park, 11-23-13), 50 Deg. F
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpVYZPbpPzk

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    • #17
      Isn't it best to place the nozzle before the IAT since the meth injection will affect intake temps?
      '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
      '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

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      • #18
        Cool, thanks Alero.

        Caffeine, your right. The plenum injection is for detonation suppression while the injection into the compressor will cool the charge ahead of the IAT sensor. The intake will be slightly cooler injecting past the IAT but it shouldn't be a problem.

        If the intake were to heat up past the IAT, then I would be concerned.



        I did some math and I came up with some interesting results. The nozzle selector says a 4~5 gal/hr nozzle will work best but that isn't the case.

        The system starts flow at 15% of nozzle max flow.

        A D04 nozzle would have to turn on well below boost to be 15% of the fuel injected (at 11.8 AFR).
        A D07 nozzle at 15% will be proper around 4-5 psi and max flow is well out of my boost range. But the linear increase in meth/h20 injection will match the fuel flow increase. In this case, I will never reach max flow (set up near 30 psi and I run 12 psi) but the ratio will be spot on.
        1996 Grand Prix | 3100v6 L82 | T04E-50 Turbo | Getrag 282 w/ EP LSD | SPEC-3 Clutch

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        • #19
          recent

          The IAT sensor is in the back port of the UIM, where the PB hose used to be.
          Wiring for pressure switch is hidden in front of battery, bottle is reinforced.

          Last edited by AleroB888; 02-08-2013, 02:26 PM.
          1999 GLS MP90 supercharged / 2003 GL MP62 supercharged / 2004 GLS stock
          Magnuson MP90 / TOG's / 3 in. Magnaflow exhaust / MSD ignition / LS1 MAF / Racetronix pump / HP Tuners / TCE 68mm TB / 36 lb Inj
          = Best track time: 12.951 @ 104.48, 1.839 60 ft. (Beech Bend Raceway Park, 11-23-13), 50 Deg. F
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpVYZPbpPzk

          Comment


          • #20
            AleroB888, that looks really nice!
            1996 Grand Prix | 3100v6 L82 | T04E-50 Turbo | Getrag 282 w/ EP LSD | SPEC-3 Clutch

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            • #21
              I did some reading, seems injecting 80% methanol with 20% water is an interesting ratio.

              Allowing 50% gas and 50% mix injected. Which is 50% Fuel / 40% Methanol / 10% Water

              The water released from the methanol during combustion brings the water content closer to the optimal 15%.


              Thinking further, injecting this mix can really help the injector duty cycle at higher rpms. Basically allowing smaller injectors to be used (if the ones needed are too large to idle well this is a good thing)!


              What I don't get yet is how to control the AFR if the meth injection fails. Obviously cutting that much fuel is a lot to not have the methanol part to compensate. Maybe I can ground the O2 signal to command open loop with OL tables adjusted for no methanol. Or simply kill the ignition and shut the engine down if meth injection fails (not too different from a fuel injector failing anyways). Just would need a sturdy system that won't easily fail with a sufficient amount of mix, like 10 gallons for long drives.
              1996 Grand Prix | 3100v6 L82 | T04E-50 Turbo | Getrag 282 w/ EP LSD | SPEC-3 Clutch

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              • #22
                The local speed shop recommended to me not to go past a 50/50 meth/water mix. In fact they actually recommended using off-the-shelf windshield washer fluid (many are between 40 and 50% meth).

                Not saying 80% will do this but apparently not too long ago they built an engine for someone and that person decided to use 100% meth instead of 50% (what was recommended) and they ended up melting their pistons and trying to sue.

                Edit: the way I understand it is that water is what reduces the temps and meth boosts octane BUT too much meth in the mix will burn much hotter than just gasoline.
                '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
                '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by caffeine View Post
                  The local speed shop recommended to me not to go past a 50/50 meth/water mix. In fact they actually recommended using off-the-shelf windshield washer fluid (many are between 40 and 50% meth).

                  Not saying 80% will do this but apparently not too long ago they built an engine for someone and that person decided to use 100% meth instead of 50% (what was recommended) and they ended up melting their pistons and trying to sue.

                  Edit: the way I understand it is that water is what reduces the temps and meth boosts octane BUT too much meth in the mix will burn much hotter than just gasoline.
                  I see, I do monitor my egt's.

                  I very much want detonation suppression which requires at least 15/85 water/meth ratio from what i am reading. I wouldn't run 100% meth w/o safety controls in place.

                  I do believe in mixing water w/ the meth.

                  Considering my lack of hands on experience with meth injection, I pretty much decided to start out smart and use 50/50 plus the recommended nozzle size.


                  My only question now is if I want to port inject 6 nozzles at 0.75 gal/hr or 1 nozzle at 4 gal/hr. I heard port injection provides better detonation suppression, but I would like your guys opinion.


                  EDIT: Gonna answer one of my questions. Port injection allows more water to reach the cylinder unevaporated, allowing for more detonation protection versus the cooling effect still present, just not as much. Also ensures the proper amount of water/meth is reaching each cylinder allowing more balanced performance, easier to tune.
                  Last edited by TGP37; 02-09-2013, 03:35 PM.
                  1996 Grand Prix | 3100v6 L82 | T04E-50 Turbo | Getrag 282 w/ EP LSD | SPEC-3 Clutch

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