Engine removal question...

[MantaGreen97]

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I'm a little curious about removing a 3100 engine from a 96-98 Grand Am. I'm not trying to do this right now, but I'm planning on it next year sometime.

I'm looking at the [GM/Helm] service manual and for engine removal it seems rather complicated. Like it says to remove a *lot* of stuff. Well I know you have to remove a lot of stuff to remove an engine but I mean it seems a little over the top. Like it essentially says to remove the engine by raising the car above the engine (?).

Do you really have to do all that? I read the info on 3400swap.com but it never really gets too specific about engine removal, but it doesn't make it seem that hard. I mean you can just remove the engine from the top, no? Or do you really have to follow the "raise the car above the engine" directions, in the service manual?

If you can raise the engine out of the car (which I think would be the "normal" way of doing it), why would GM put such directions in the service manual?

[napatiger]

I have the 3.4L in a 95 MC, may not apply to you exactly.

You can take all the shit out that will get in the way, and then remove the tranny (auto) bolts then lift engine out the top.

I did it like that once

But I found it WAY easier to drop it out the bottom, expecially if you want to remove the tranny as well, trust me it is easier to put the tranny and engine together when out of the car.

Basically to drop it out the bottom:
Remove the radiator fans, disconnect coolent hoses.
Disconnect Fuel
Disconnect Downpipe
Disconnect Steering.
Remove front tires and brake rotors.
Rear Wheels up on ramps
loosen subframe bolts.

Build a dolly from 4x4s and wheels from home depot (easy)

lower front of car on dolly (carefull)

remove subframe bolts

Raise car (carefull)

slide engine tranny and steering out from under car.

plus a bunch of other stuff like wires and vacuum.

It seems intimidating the first time, but after you do it, no problem.

[bszopi]

Done it two (or maybe 3?) times now and have always gone out the top...

[TurboSedan]

out the top for me as well. i always pull the engine with the trans. i have done it that way about 4-5 times now. it's a little easier with the Getrag but the 3.1/4T60 also came out the top with no problems.

[geoffinbc]

If you have the facilities then going out hte bottom is WAY easier. The whole cradle gets droped out. Guys at my dad work do it in 20 min (no bullshit).

But in your garage you can pull it out the top but you have to dis assemble alot more components in order to do it. For example the entire axle/transmission assembly must be removed and set aside.

If you were able to lift the car off then you could leave all that in tact.

[bszopi]

For example the entire axle/transmission assembly must be removed and set aside.

Since when??

[TurboSedan]

But in your garage you can pull it out the top but you have to dis assemble alot more components in order to do it. For example the entire axle/transmission assembly must be removed and set aside.

i remove the engine/transmission together. obviously i have to pull the axles but that is easy. besides pulling the axles out, nothing else is really disassembled at all. just pull the PS pump off the engine, remove radiator hoses, disconnect the downpipe, and then drain fluids and disconnect some electrical connectors (i usually pull the entire engine wiring harness & ECM out with the engine). there are a few other things like throttle cable and in my case the clutch slave cylinder. i have it down to about 2-3hrs doing it myself and in no hurry. oh, i do have to pull the hood off i usually do engine swaps in my apartment complex parking lot so there is no way i could get away with leaving the car sit with no front cradle or front wheels for that matter.

on the other hand i've never dropped the cradle and done it that way so i can't say the way i do it is easier. i just don't want to mess with the steering and i don't have a lift.

[geoffinbc]

For example the entire axle/transmission assembly must be removed and set aside.

Since when??

Well on Lloyds Cav we had to. We kept getting hung up so we took it right out of the way.

[X11_STE]

Basicly, it seems like we have 2 camps here. Those that go over the top and those that go out the bottom. Each one is technicaly correct and has their own pro's and con's. I side with the go through the bottom guys. I have done both and prefer dropping the subframe. Actually, I prefer the subframe from my '81 X-11!! I can split the subframe in half and only drop the component I desire. Very nice!

[sharkey]

i pulled my motor out of the top. mine you i have a j-body with 2 frame rails that basicly are just lower controll arm mounts. in a vehicle with a full subframe that the motor and tranny bolts to, id pull it out the bottom. basicly all ya gotta do is unhook all the wiring (or just unhook the bulkhead wiring harness), fuel lines and rad/heater hoses and lift the car above the motor.

[SHOoff]

Re: Engine removal question...

If you can raise the engine out of the car (which I think would be the "normal" way of doing it), why would GM put such directions in the service manual?

The reason that it goes in the manual like that, is because that's how the car is assembled. The put the car on the engine, not the engine in the car. You can take it out through the hood. I bought one from the junk yard here and they unbolted it and pulled it through where the hood used to be with their towtruck. Tranny and all.

Taking it through the bottom is probably just less work since you dont have to watch what you're banging the engine into when you're taking it in/out

[napatiger]

My biggest issue with taking it out the top and leaving the auto tranny was that since it was my first time....I didn't line up the tranny and engine on reassemble and my Uncle cracked the case putting them together with the bolts

Otherwise out the top was not really harder, just took two people and more time; and since I usually work alone, it was easier for me to raise the car with big jack and 4x4's

[napatiger]

My biggest issue with taking it out the top and leaving the auto tranny was that since it was my first time....I didn't line up the tranny and engine on reassemble and my Uncle cracked the case putting them together with the bolts

Otherwise out the top was not really harder, just took two people and more time; and since I usually work alone, it was easier for me to raise the car with big jack and 4x4's

[Rhedalert]

I've always taken the engine out from the top. Done it a few times that way, by myself, and 1 time the tranny came out afterwards. It depends whether you want the tranny out or not.

[MantaGreen97]

Haven't visited the site in a while but I just noticed all the replies to this thread and have to give a big thanks to everyone for all the replies!

Definitely useful information--seems (as someone said) that the top way is easier if you don't have access to a lift; so I guess when the time comes I'll endeavour to do it by taking the engine out the top.