60º V8???

[Canyonero]

I could have sworn that I read a Cadillac Northstar V8 was a 60º Engine and could be bolted right into a Trooper. Wikipedia says it's a 90º V8, but lists the LQ1 as a predacessor. Could it be that the Northstar is a 90º engine but shares the 60º bolt pattern? I've also heard of them used in Fiero swaps, also a 60º base. Anyone have insight on this?

[SappySE107]

Its a 90 V8 but the 3.4 DOHC came out first and was probably used for design consideration. I don't think the bellhousing is the same but I could be wrong. I really don't know what the northstar has for bellhousing.

[Joseph Upson]

I could have sworn that I read a Cadillac Northstar V8 was a 60º Engine and could be bolted right into a Trooper. Wikipedia says it's a 90º V8, but lists the LQ1 as a predacessor. Could it be that the Northstar is a 90º engine but shares the 60º bolt pattern? I've also heard of them used in Fiero swaps, also a 60º base. Anyone have insight on this?

Yes, the northstar V8 shares the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the GM 60 degree V6 and so does the earlier front wheel drive Cadillac V8s for the transverse configuration.

[Canyonero]

Ok, I would like to order one of those please.

[Joseph Upson]

The 4.9L is a lot less troublesome, both engines have been installed in several Fieros however the Northstar requires a good bit of chassis modification.

[Canyonero]

The 4.9L is a lot less troublesome, both engines have been installed in several Fieros however the Northstar requires a good bit of chassis modification.

Not in an Isuzu Trooper it doesn't. Just custom (or modded) motor mounts. Almost makes me wish I didn't already have that 3.4L. Oh well, maybe next time.

[3100 MPFI]

uhhhh..... The northstar does NOT have the same bellhousing as the other engine. The 4.9 is the same as the 3.1, but the northstar is SIMILAR, not the same.

The chevy engines have the starter on the FRONT of the tranny, but the northstar has it on TOP (the starter is located under the upper intake manifold).

The tranny used on the northstar is the 4T80-E, not the 60, or 65. The bellhousing is TALLER on the northstar tranny.

Here is a link to a pic of the tranny so you can see what I mean. You can see the indent for the starter on top, and the sheer mass of the tranny is a lot more. The bolt pattern is also stretched out farther. I think when I was looking at one in person thinking the lower 2 front bolts were close to mateing to the 60 degree, but the top 2 would be almost 2 inches higher than the 60 degree's. I did not really look at the placement of the back ones.

[Joseph Upson]

Just put a turbo or two on the 3.4 and a big intercooler out front and I bet you'll have a lot more fun gaining the 1.2L you are lacking that way, especially if the 3.4L in the trooper is DOHC already.

[Joseph Upson]

uhhhh..... The northstar does NOT have the same bellhousing as the other engine. The 4.9 is the same as the 3.1, but the northstar is SIMILAR, not the same.

The chevy engines have the starter on the FRONT of the tranny, but the northstar has it on TOP (the starter is located under the upper intake manifold).

The tranny used on the northstar is the 4T80-E, not the 60, or 65. The bellhousing is TALLER on the northstar tranny.

Here is a link to a pic of the tranny so you can see what I mean. You can see the indent for the starter on top, and the sheer mass of the tranny is a lot more. The bolt pattern is also stretched out farther. I think when I was looking at one in person thinking the lower 2 front bolts were close to mateing to the 60 degree, but the top 2 would be almost 2 inches higher than the 60 degree's. I did not really look at the placement of the back ones.

I'm aware of the starter location on the Northstar however if the bolt pattern on it were very different the Fiero guys on Pennock's site would not be able to bolt the Muncie 4 spd and Getrag 5 spd directly to it with only the minor modification necessary to clear the starter and I believe a crossover coolant pipe on the back of the engine. It doesn't require an adaptor plate and that's the most important determining factor.

[Canyonero]

Just put a turbo or two on the 3.4 and a big intercooler out front and I bet you'll have a lot more fun gaining the 1.2L you are lacking that way, especially if the 3.4L in the trooper is DOHC already.

I am installing a 3.4L from a '94 Firebird (up from a 2.8L). No DOHC here. I am toying with the idea of supercharging it, but getting a little ahead of myself. I need to get it installed and running first...

[sharkey]

the northstar is based off a small gm pattern, but it has a couple changes. the motor itself doesnt have the middle 2 bolts, and the lbottom right side bolt hole is moved in towards the block a bit for clearance. ive seen modified rwd bellhousings that bolt to the northstar.

[dohcfiend]

i think the evolution of the gm quads started with the quad4 then the lq1 and then the N*. i really do not believe that likely though. i think the n* was birthed from the lt5 as it's design inspiration.

as far as bellhousing goes. the n*almost has the same bellhousing. i read that all but one of the bolts will line up and your tranny's bellhousing. but if u know a good welder your existing bellhousing can be modified to fit. i am not sure what modifications will be required to make the starter fit though but i know it will be an issue.


p.s. don't quote me on this but i think it is the next bolthole to the right after that metal bracket in that pic that needs to be modified on a 60 degree v6tranny.

[Canyonero]

Words can hardly express how I feel about wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_bellhousing_patterns

To sum up: We're ALL right, in some way or another! States Caddy 4.1/4.5/4.9L have the SAME bolt pattern. But the Northstar engines have a nearly identical pattern.

Does a 4.9L Caddy engine not imply Northstar*? If not, what's the difference (other than the bell housing)?

GM small corporate pattern
Also called the GM metric pattern

This pattern has a distinctive odd-sided hexagonal shape.

* GM 60° V6 family FWD/RWD V6
* Buick FWD/RWD 90° 3800 V6
* Cadillac 4.1/4.5/4.9 L V8
* Isuzu 3.5L DOHC V6
* 1983-up Jeep/AMC/Chrysler 2.5L/150 in³ I4 found in Jeeps and Dodge Dakotas
* Jeep/AMC 2.8L V6
* GM Iron Duke FWD inline 4

Northstar pattern

Nearly identical to the GM small corporate/metric pattern, except that the starter is located between the cylinder banks, and the lower right bolt hole is moved outward by roughly one inch. Being nearly identical, it too has the distinctive odd-sided hexagonal shape.

* All Cadillac Northstar V8's
* Oldsmobile Aurora L47 V8
* Oldsmobile Intrigue LX5 V6

---
*Edit: apparently not. See wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Prem...gine#Northstar

[Joseph Upson]

I'm not sure the Northstar comes in a 4.9L which to my knowledge predates the Northstar, but in traditional pushrod form in TBI and Multiport injection configuration and is not as bulky and that has made it a lot easier for the Fieros than the slicing and dicing necessary to fit the Northstar

[Canyonero]

Damn, I really wanted DOHC too. Aught to be able to use a Fiero adapter plate though - I assume they exist for the Northstar. I'll look into it. I really want a 8V powered Trooper. I know a 4.9L has been done with very little trouble.

What would the weight difference be. My ironhead 3.4L shipped at 240lbs, those Northstars are all aluminum.