3800 Vs 3400/3500

[SappySE107]

I figured this was a good discussion, and if we kept it more specific to a fair debate (pushrods only), we can continue this.

[Sorin]

Okay, well this is going kinda slow. I'll post my opening arguement on the 3800.



Okay, so why is that motor so gay? You would think GM could get more than 200hp out of it. It's not like we are shooting for maximum theoretical power output. I mean Christ, come on, 200hp? From 3.8L? And I was shocked to learn only recently that it got iron heads. Now what is the deal with that. Hello, this is 2003, not 1973.

I MUCH prefer the 3500, but I couldn't think of anything to argue about, so bleh.

[Rhedalert]

Iron heads are for trucks or diesels

[gpse3400]

Okay, well this is going kinda slow. I'll post my opening arguement on the 3800.



Okay, so why is that motor so gay? You would think GM could get more than 200hp out of it. It's not like we are shooting for maximum theoretical power output. I mean Christ, come on, 200hp? From 3.8L? And I was shocked to learn only recently that it got iron heads. Now what is the deal with that. Hello, this is 2003, not 1973.

I MUCH prefer the 3500, but I couldn't think of anything to argue about, so bleh.

Nice flag. But the 3800 just isn't for me....

[SappySE107]

Maybe the 3800 is for transexuals then:P What flag is that?

The iron heads are great for boost though...

[Sorin]

What's the flag for trans? I dunno. But for the gay flag all I did was use Google's image search (god I love that feature) and searched for "gay rainbow".

[Cliff8928]

I MUCH prefer the 3500, but I couldn't think of anything to argue about, so bleh.

How about that the 3800 and 3500 seem to have nearly identical power output, yet the 3500 looks to me more efficient!

Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[Sorin]

Yeah that was one thing I was going to mention before, because it just kicks ass. It makes the same hp at the same rpms as the 3800, and it makes an insignificant amount less torque, though at 400rpm more (which is no biggie to me). Numbers aside, what I want to see are the power curves for both engines on the same scale to compare them. That'd be interesting.

That the 3x00s were designed from the outset to be a V6 is definitely a plus (well, evolved from an earlier engine, which itself was designed as a V6 from the start), rather than the V8-with-two-cylinders-lopped-off 3800 (that's true right?). Virtually every V6 I see out in the industry is 60°. Whereas most V8s are 90°. Maybe there is something inherently better in using 60° for a V6, rather than taking a V8 (90° typical) and hacking off two cylinders?

Comparing hp/L figures, the 3800 in natural from is 52.6, whereas the 3500 is 57.1. WOOT 5 more hp per liter. (Which is .87hp per cubic inch for the 3800 and .94hp/cu. in. for the 3500). Now if they could only apply whatever it is they are doing with the LS1/LS6 to the 3x00, that'd kick ASS (LS6 is 1.17hp/cu.in. and 71.05hp/L; which is comparable to many OHC engines. How's that for pimped out?).

[Special Ross]

I believe the 4.3L V-6 is an LT1 engine with 2 cylinders chopped off, and the 3800 I think was just designed as a V-6. I could be wrong on that...

[Sorin]

Yeah, I saw specs one time where the 4.3L bore &/or stroke was the same as a 5.7L, implying that it was just a shorted V8. But the 3.8L on the other hand I'm not sure about, I've only heard people say that it was a chopped V8 too. I don't know personally though. Though I must say it has rather ghey bore and stroke figures when you look at them in mm. Compared to most other GMs engines which have nice, clean, rounded numbers, the 3800 gets all stupid. WTF?

[Justin]

The 3.8 Buick engine was always designed to be a V6. The Chevrolet 3.8 V6 is a 305 V8 missing two cylinders. I was confused about it until I did some research a couple months back. My 77 Ventura actually came factory with a 3.8 Buick V6, and my roommates 1980 Impala has a 3.8 Chev. V6.

As for which one's better, the 3800 is a tank of an engine, good and bad. You can't beat it for longevity and power. Lets see how these 3500 engine last pushing 200hp. Do you think they'll last like the stronger 3800? I don't. That's not to say they won't run 200,000 miles, I know my 2.8 in my Cutlass, with 179000 miles, and my bro's ex-cutlass, with well over 200000 miles, both had crosshatching on the cyls when I did the head gaskets.(cough)flaw(cough). I'd love to have a 3800 in my cutlass, but I like the mileage and power I have with the 2.8, so I think I'm content. I love the 60 degree engines, but I think the 3.8 and 5.7 are the two best engines GM ever made, and I don't think they'll ever lose that claim.

Whatever, just my .02

Justin,
happy owner of 4 60 degree V6 cars, 0 90 degree........

[Rhedalert]

Why wouldn't the 3500 last? It's not like they had to stick a blower on it to get good power (cough)3.8(cough) (Duh) The 3400 is doing just fine and could do what those 2.8's can do for longetivity

[Anonymous]

Yeah, there was a post on v6z24 recently about a couple 3400 minivans with 300k-400k kilometers on them.

[GPXSS]

Yeah, there was a post on v6z24 recently about a couple 3400 minivans with 300k-400k kilometers on them.

you mean that didnt have the intake manifold gaskets fail? :P (Emoticons! Yay!!)

Personally I think the 3500 will be the strongest 60º yet, and id bet its stronger than the 3800.

I just read in Car & Driver last night about the Malibu:
"Although the 3500 is based off of the current 3400, GM says that youd be hard pressed to find a part that was not improved upon in the entire engine"

I dont see them updating the 3800... probably because its being flown away by the dodo bird.

[Justin]

I dont see them updating the 3800...

Then what's all this 3.8, 3800, 3800 Series 2, 3800 Series 3 stuff?