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Taking one last stab at killing my 3.1 hesitation

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  • Taking one last stab at killing my 3.1 hesitation

    So, I started this thread here: http://www.60degreev6.com/showthread...3.1+hesitation and never found a solution. After about a month of trying different fuel-tip in tunes, I've gotten nowhere. I wanted to start this thread to make a quick summary of everything, and see if anyone has some suggestions for this annoying problem.
    My car is an 86 Fiero. It had a 4 cylinder that burned oil and a 5 speed tranny. My uncle had a 1990 Lumina, with a good 3.1, that i got for free. I swapped the engine into my Fiero, along with the Lumina ECM. After a few months of rough idling, the car started to sound like a Lumina (EGR valve was stuck I think). I had the ECM reflashed with a 90 Lumina 5 speed program.
    Now that it ran good, I started to notice a hesitation problem.
    The best way to describe the problem is like this. The car will be idling, and if I tap the gas very quick and light, the engine will bog down 100-200 rpms or so, then rev up. Sometimes I will give it about 1/4 throttle quickly, and hold my foot there. This sometimes will cause the car to bog down badly, almost killing it at times, before it revs up. When I am driving the car, the engine will buck slightly on each shift and is very annoying. It is extremely bad especially when I first shift into 2nd after a cold start. It almost kills the car sometimes. But anyway, it seemed to me like the car wasn't getting enough gas, so I sent the chip back to my programmer, as he said he would increase the fuel at tip in. When I got the chip back, it seemed to dissappear. Then of course, 10 minutes later it came back. All this seemed to do was make the car hesitate and rev quicker, and not eliminate the hesitation. I sent it back once again, and the tip in was increased more. The hesitation was still there, and the car would flat out fall on its face if you went full throttle. I figured it was giving it way too much gas, so sent the chip back to get reprogrammed to stock. I'm ruling out that this is a tuning issue.
    Among the things I have tried so far: New plugs, new plug wires, different coils and ICM, three TPS sensors, at least 5 MAP sensors, two oxygen sensors, and two IAT sensors. The only thing I've noticed that is weird, is that the car acts no different with the 02 sensor unplugged. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell that could mean.
    The only thing I can think of to try now is a different ECM. I've tried so many sensors, replaced ignition components, checked the fuel pressure (it was good), and god knows what else. I do have a scanner available to use, but I am getting so lost as to what to try next. The thing has been getting 30 MPG, which is great, but it can be annoying to drive. Ive been messing with this for close to a year, and it only seems like I'm taking steps back. Sorry for such a long winded post, but I would LOVE to fix this thing!

  • #2
    i have a 91 beretta that used to do what you described. my problem was fuel related. it turned out to be the fuel pressure regulator. the best way to check it is to have a fuel pressure gauge you can see while driving the car. my friend has a gauge with a 4 foot line on it. i hooked it up and sat the gauge on my window wiper to see it while i was driving. and one other thing, what brand/model spark plugs are you running?

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    • #3
      re

      I'm running AC Delco plugs that are stock for the Lumina. I have a fuel pressure gauge, but the hose isnt long enough for me to put on my windshield. Since it is mid engined, I would have to have it behind me. I could have somebody else ride in the car though and check for a drop in fuel pressure. I have checked the fuel pressure at idle, and it would increase as soon as I hit the gas, even if the car hesitated.

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      • #4
        Sounds like it could be your fuel injectors? are they original? Props on the engine swap! Wish i could make it sound so easy. My buddy has a fiero GT and i gave him a 99 3400 topend, he's scared to death to start surgery because we both know its a pretty involved and his 2.8 still runs...

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        • #5
          re

          The car does have the original fuel injectors. I'm almost to the point of ripping the upper plenum off, just so I can check them out. If I can find some o-rings at the parts store, that just may be tomorrows project. I can't stand this hesitation anymore. It makes shifting no fun when the engine hesitates EVERY time.

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          • #6
            im surprised nobody has mentioned the fuel pump or the fuel filter, although I'd lean more toward the pump itself and just change the filter for good measure.

            edit: i didnt read the other thread so im sorry if you've ruled this out. i may as well suggest checking the voltage at the TPS sensor as well through its full range

            edit 2: im a moron...all this was mentioned (walks away whistling)
            Last edited by IanSzgatti; 09-25-2007, 11:55 PM.

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            • #7
              I changed the fuel filter about a month ago. The old one had some nasty gas coming out of it, so I had hopes of it helping.... it didn't. There's a chance it could be the fuel pump, but I seriously doubt it. I was going to test the fuel pressure again today, but couldn't find the gauge in our garage. Anytime I've seen a fuel pump go bad, it always made it hard to start the vehicle. My Fiero starts right up, thus why I don't think its the fuel pump. You never know though. I'm planning on making a trip to the junkyard tomorrow morning for another ECM. If that doesn't work, I just might pull the whole wiring harness and go over everything. It would also give me a good chance to clean it up as well.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by toadson View Post
                .... it didn't. There's a chance it could be the fuel pump, but I seriously doubt it. I was going to test the fuel pressure again today, but couldn't find the gauge in our garage. Anytime I've seen a fuel pump go bad, it always made it hard to start the vehicle. My Fiero starts right up, thus why I don't think its the fuel pump. You never know though.
                look, im confused now... in light of this new info you've given here, we really should be crystal.... have you confirmed proper pressure, even after the pump hot reached operating temp???... dont forget that a pump can in fact start your car right up, but not be able to meet the demnands of snap throttle...in particular once they get hot internally after about ten minutews of running!! im a little suspicious of your diagnosis kind sir!!! anyways...get back to us here on this

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                • #9
                  Sorry for the confusion. I found the fuel pressure gauge today and will hook it up tomorrow. It seems like before it was 36 PSI at idle. I will check it out tomorrow, both idling and while I drive the car, to see what the pressure is. As of right now, I'm going to look into what the normal pressure should be.

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                  • #10
                    i was reading your other thread again, and you mentioned the Tech2 said 02 voltage dropped very low when it hesitated... so that is a really rich condition bogging you down...

                    i also read about your 40psi at idle and 35 KOER, 45psi when you rev it... im thinking it might be an idea to have an injector balance test done... because those pressures seem normal to me... this is a toughy and I cant wait to see what you find

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                    • #11
                      I was thinking the same thing about the injectors. I might go ahead and rip the plenum off tomorrow and do a resistance test on each one if you think the fuel PSI was ok. If I remember right, they should test at 12.1 ohms or something close.

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                      • #12
                        yeah you want to see 12 to 14... the only problem with the balance test is it costs money to have it done at the shop... but if you get the plenum off, hell, you may as well remove some injectors and visually inspect them for clogging or debris... running super rich will only worsen an already dirty injector once you shut down the motor and bake deposits on the tip...

                        how does it idle??? feel misfire-ish at all???

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                        • #13
                          Im sure we have some extra injectors laying around somewhere if I have to replace any. The car does misfire a little bit at idle, but every vehicle ive had has always had a bit of misfire while idling. I figure I may as well rip the plenum off though and check each injector, and maybe rip them out of I can get some new orings. This way i can rule them out if they arent the problem.

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                          • #14
                            I've got the plenum ripped off, and each injector checked out fine. Just for the hell of it, heres what I got for each one
                            Cylinder # - Ohms
                            1 - 13.9
                            2 - 13.6
                            3 - 13.9
                            4 - 13.7
                            5 - 14.0
                            6 - 13.9

                            Luckily, I have an extra rail, full set of injectors, and fuel pressure regulator laying around. I'm going to pull out my rail and injectors, inspect the o-rings, and probably swap the fuel pressure regulator out. I did notice around the #2 injector a wet looking substance, but when I scraped it out, it was dry. There are also a few other injectors that look like they might have been leaky, but I never found any gas around them. Guess I will find out here in a few when I pull the injectors.

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                            • #15
                              The Orings where the injectors meet the intake were pretty much junk. A few of them fell apart when I removed them. I think some of them may have leaked, as there was crud where the oring should have been sealing. I have the plenum back on now, and before too long I should have the car running. Another thing I noticed, is that my PCV valve hose was bent to where it either blocked off the airflow completely, or damn near close. I did have a rather large hose on it, so I found some 3/8" fuel line that was rather stiff, and put it in its place. I really hope this helps fix my problem.

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