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  • WTF noodle scratcher

    Ok so since I was a young lad, my first auto was an 88 grand prix 2.8, and have moved up to my third 3.1 cutlass supr. in my old age, on the principal that I have had to replace or repair damn near everything on these cars at one point, so I wont have to learn how all over on a new pos. especially considering the cost of parts. But heres the deal. I have a prob, that I cant finger out, my youngest bro. (the ase cert. gm mech. whose only reply is "take it to the dealer") cant figure it out or my wifes inlaws who own a body and tranny shop cant either. So thats me and 7 mechanics. Since we are all idiots, I have come to you for help. Please. Before I end it all.
    My 91 cutlass (vin t) ran fine for years. Last fall, my wife got whacked by a beetle (vw, nt flyin) on the pass. side. Had to replace both doors. Anywho, since then I have had a serious, charging/starting prob. At first I thought it was the alt. Replaced it, same prob. Retested bad, replaced again with another, this time tested it first. Then the battery. Figured this was the prob. Returned 3 of them in last 6 months. Would come out to car, turn the ignition and either have no juice, or dash would flicker and make some screechin static, or come on and the dash cluster would tell me I have no voltage. SO I would charge the battery and replace. Car starts. Except the batteries were good and I overcharged them, thus ruining them. I got smart the last time and had it checked before chargin. So now I have a good alt, and good batt. But the starter cranks extremely slowly or not at all. It sounds like a locomotive, slowly building up steam. After cranking for a couple of min. it will start. Have tested it with the multimeter, but I cant find a listing for how much resistance there should be in the circuit. And the dash still displays no voltage. Could it be a short in the solenoid? This only happens if the car has sat for more than an hour, warm or cold. If I shut it off, go in the store for a few min, and come back out it fires right up. Or if it even is the starter. What else is there in the series? Ignition sw., ecm, batt, starter. Fusible link maybe goin bad? Any insights would be seriously appreciated. I would hate to torch the car for insurance purposes. thanks

  • #2
    check your bulkhead connectors to make sure they are tightened down, test all your positive leads at the devices for voltage / voltage drop. make sure all the grounds are continuous and are not corroded at all. also you can visually inspect the wiring harness to make sure nothing is cut/ being grounded out.

    those would be the best places to start.
    got zap-straps?
    89 Z24
    13.886 @ 96.16 mph
    street trim - slicks

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    • #3
      Wiring issue is my guess ass well. Either a hot is grounding, or a ground is not solid and its not charging very well.
      Ben
      60DegreeV6.com
      WOT-Tech.com

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      • #4
        Check the batter cable to the starter for corrosion as well. The charge wire from the ALT to battery also needs to be checked. Also you will have a heavy gauge wire or 2 smaller gauge wires in a pair coming from the starter post possibly to a 12V post on the firewall (not on all cars) and then finally through the bulkhead connector to the fuse box. Inspect them and also determine the condition of the fusible links.
        1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
        1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
        Because... I am, CANADIAN

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        • #5
          I checked the connections. no corrosion on wires or terminals on starter or ground.(guessing that sitting right below the oil filter and getting a bath every 3k miles is a bonus). No corrosion at alt, or on battery terminals or battery ground. Or any other ground that I can see for that matter. When I have a hard time cranking, I can hear a clicking on the pass. side firewall. That is where the relay center is if I remember correctly. But what relay is in there for the ignition? I thought they were all in the elec. center by the ecm up by pass. headlight.

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          • #6
            not sure about your make, model, but my experience most relays are closer to firewall, keeping them dryer and safer. I would look closer there

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            • #7
              check in the area under the COOLANT RESEVOIR!!!!!.

              Your HORN RELAY is located next to the ECM. If you have FOG LIGHTS, there is a box under there that has that in it as well.

              PICS:




              How much damage was there done to the front passenger fender, and door?

              There is a wiring harness that runs in the fender. It could have gotten crushed and the wires messed up causeing a draw.
              Taylor
              1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3100 MPFI
              1990 Pontiac Grand Prix STE 3.1 MPFI
              1994 Olds Cutlass Supreme convertible
              1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
              "find something simple and complicate it"

              Comment


              • #8
                Don't know if you are still looking for the problem, but while I was working on my cars today, I took a pic of the wiring harness that I was talking about.

                This is the headlight harness that goes in the passenger fender.


                And here it is hidden in the passenger door jamb. It is hard to see, but my lucky finger is on it.




                These pics were taken in my 1996 Grand Prix SE, but my 1988 Cutlass Supreme has it, my 1995 Cutlass Supreme has it, and my 1990 Grand Prix has it.

                Not sure what car yours is, but if it is one of those, then you will have it too.
                Taylor
                1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3100 MPFI
                1990 Pontiac Grand Prix STE 3.1 MPFI
                1994 Olds Cutlass Supreme convertible
                1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
                "find something simple and complicate it"

                Comment


                • #9
                  thanks for the pics guys. I can see the connections from the harnesses under the resevoir. I will pull it out this weekend and check for the usual. As for the damage, the fender is fine, but the two doors were crushed and the rear quarter by the tire has a little damage. If there is a harness in the jamb of the pass.door, then thats where the prob. may be. The girlie in her new Hitler designed bug impacted there and drug up the side of the car.

                  On a side note, I took the battery back to wally world and had them test it. Once more tested bad. 4th time in 7 months a never start battery failed. So I went to auto zone and bought a good one. 3 weeks without a problem. I tested the batt. the other day, and it tested good, putting out 12.41 volts, but the tester said it only had 60% charge, and needed charging. So while I havent had a problem yet, I still want to make sure there is no drain.

                  Does anyone know the specs for the starter on a 91 3.1? The results from the tester at the dealership are : Batt: 12.41 volts, 825 cca. Alt output, 35 amp at idle (700 rpm) 108 amps (2000 rpm), and the starter pulled 143-156 amps. I know the batt and alt tested good, but I cant find specs for the starter to see if it needs replaced or could be part of my problem.

                  thanx

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                  • #10
                    If you do replace the starter, go for the newer smaller ones (used on the 2000~ish 3100/3400.

                    They are not only a LOT easier to get in (and a bolt in replacment), but the even smaller ones are higher torque, or something like that. Just so you know, I put the smaller one in my 1990 Grand Prix STE 3.1 and have not had any problems. They make one that is even smaller (I only did it to save some money. My starter messed up and I had the smaller one lying around).

                    Taylor
                    1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3100 MPFI
                    1990 Pontiac Grand Prix STE 3.1 MPFI
                    1994 Olds Cutlass Supreme convertible
                    1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
                    "find something simple and complicate it"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just replaced the starter on my mom's 98 olds cutlass w/ 3100 and didnt pay any attention, other than how much easier it was to get to and replace.

                      If I use one off of a 3100, will I need to shim it to match it up to my older 3.1? Also, does anyone have the specs as to how many amps the starter should pull? I really dont want to have to take out the a/c hoses and all that to get the starter out, just to find out its good.

                      thanx

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                      • #12
                        don't know the amp, but I didn't need the shims with the newer starter. I think the newer ones are made so they don't need shims. It was not shimmed on my 3100, and it is not shimmed on my 3.1.

                        Also, in the W-body, it is not necessary to remove any of the AC components to replace the starter. I just remove the oil filter (I don't even remove the oil pressure sensor).
                        Taylor
                        1988 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3100 MPFI
                        1990 Pontiac Grand Prix STE 3.1 MPFI
                        1994 Olds Cutlass Supreme convertible
                        1998 Lincoln Mark VIII
                        "find something simple and complicate it"

                        Comment

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