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3100 DIS issues

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  • #16
    The way I understand it the DIS ICM has complete control of spark below 400 rpm, so it should spark with power, ground, and the crank sensor signal.
    '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
    '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

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    • #17
      Um, I think the module may be DOA...

      I have the following:

      12V supply to the module
      Ground
      1VAC signal from the 7x while cranking

      I do NOT have the following:
      Reference pulses to MSII (as verified with serial connection)
      Tach signal to instrument cluster
      Spark at a plug connected to a loose wire and grounded to engine through shell

      I need to make sure I have the module hooked up right...
      6-wire connector is self-explanatory (it only goes in one hole)
      Connector next to 6-wire is 7x CKP, connector has wires in first and last holes
      Connector at the other end of module is 12V and ground

      If that is right, is there a way to check the module without taking it in to be tested?

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      • #18
        Bump...

        I'm looking for a scan or something out of a FSM called "Ignition System Check". I have the system to where it will spark now (didn't connect the bypass to the START circuit through a relay yet to cut off the bypass...) but I still can't get any tach pulses to either the I/P or the MSII. The only Ignition System Check chart I have is for a distributor...

        If the charts are almost the same, I'm stuck at the part where the line says to connect a test light to the tach terminal, which would be C in the 6-pin connector. I can't get a light, whether or not the 6-pin is connected, but my DMM reads 12V on every terminal in the module (except D which is a ground) with the connector disconnected (cant get the light to light on ANY terminal in the module!). Yes, the light works. I checked that both at the battery and at the coil power/ground connector. I have no light whether or not the engine is being cranked, and, according to the chart I'm using, it should be blinking...

        The issue is that I have spark, but I can't get a tach pulse ANYWHERE. I have already verified the wiring to the MSII with 165 adapter card, and the MSII passed all the stim tests. And have also verified the ignition setup in TunerStudio.

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        • #19
          Come on, anyone? I can't fire this thing without a tach pulse!

          I've replaced the entire ignition coil pack.
          I've checked, re-checked, and checked the wiring again. I have less than .4 ohms resistance on all ECM wires between the ICM connector and the ECM connectors. Also checked between the ECM wiring harness connector and the DB37 MSII connector pins on the adapter card.
          I have removed the MSII from the car and checked it again on the stimulator. It works, I promise.
          I still have 12V at the power connector while cranking. I even added a jumper wire for the ground straight to the battery just in case that's bad. I have already verified a good 7X pulse.

          I still have SPARK but NO TACH or REFERENCE PULSES.

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          • #20
            did you replace the module underneath the coils or just the coils? if you did, was the module new GM, J/Y, Parts store?

            I know some ICM plugs have a "tach output" and some PCM's have a "tach output" but cars with it on the PCM don't have it on the ICM, so you may need to wire in a different plug. IIRC, the ICM plug I'm thinking you should have, will have 2 white(mine was faded, so maybe yellow, or another light color) wires coming out of it.
            Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

            I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

            Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

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            • #21
              Well, I took the entire engine harness back out last night. Turns out that the tach wire had high resistance (almost 60 ohms). I put it back in today, after (I thought) fixing the ground wire as well. Looks like I need another power connector or another terminal for the connector as I have megaohm resistance on the ground side... I'm going to ground the thing straight to the mounting bolt at the bottom so I don't have to fight with the grounds on the back of the engine. Those things are a serious PITA.

              But I did get the MSII TunerPro tach to bounce! Once!

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              • #22
                Um, possibly a dumb question, but...

                Is there a difference between the modules? I'm talking between about 1988-2006 or so? I know the one I got from the J/Y yesterday is off of a 3400. I didn't check the year, unfortunately (I'd guess around 2005-06, was a crashed Malibu of 2 gens back from the new ones). Would I have better luck going to an older module (say, from a 2.8-3.1 FWD or a 3.4 Camaro if I can find one)?

                Still have lots of spark. Still have power to module and much better ground now that I've cleaned everything up and replaced the ground wire on the module. Still only have an initial bounce of the TunerPro MSII tach when first cranking and zilch after that.

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                • #23
                  Yawn... I feel like I'm talking to myself.

                  What is the lowest battery voltage the 3100 module can handle while still producing DRPs? My battery is SHOT. I'm only keeping it alive using a battery maintainer. While cranking, the system voltage drops, but NOT below 11V (I'm not cranking it for that long).

                  I've redone all the wiring on the large connector now. I've redone the ground twice. There is still plenty of power on the power wire. I'm still getting spark and only an initial jump in the DRPs as indicated by the MSII. If the 3100 module is more voltage sensitive than the distributor I took out of the 3.1, it would help me to know.

                  I have had my alternator fail before while on the highway. The system voltage dropped under 10V. The engine was misfiring badly but STILL RAN until I shut it off (and then it didn't restart). That was with the distributor. I find it quite hard to believe that the 3100 system is THAT much more voltage sensitive that it won't produce DRPs but will still produce spark with the system voltage under 12V. Can someone shed some light on this?

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                  • #24
                    I did a little looking, and it looks as though the modules interchange completely. I'm not too keen on the inner workings of the module or MSII.

                    try hooking up a charger and trying again.
                    Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                    I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                    Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I dunno; I haven't had any issues like that but I've also never gone tried to use it with megasquirt. I would think if you're sure the ICM is working properly and sure the wiring is correct then everything should be fine.
                      '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
                      '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

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                      • #26
                        The thing is, I've been trying for a solid week... I even went on Thursday and got the replacement coil pack. I've tried jumper wires straight to the battery for the ground, I've checked all the wires several times now, I've put the MSII back on the stimulator to double check the tach input, and everything I've gotten out of it is that the system SHOULD be working just fine even with the crappy battery. As was asked on another forum, the MSII is NOT resetting with the power dropout.

                        A few minutes ago, I went and unbolted all of the grounds on the back of the engine. I cleaned EVERYTHING to nice and shiny, both bolts, the nut, and every single ring terminal. I'm going to try it again in a bit and we'll see what happens.

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                        • #27
                          have you checked the ICM against a known good module?
                          Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                          I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                          Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Well, let's see... The first I'm not 100% sure about. The second came from an unmolested car that was crashed, so I'm assuming it was good enough to power the engine when the impact came.

                            I'm going to have to wait a week to try another battery. I'll finish my testing with the one I currently have. It appears that when the voltage drops below about 12.4V, the module stops sending the signal. And since that is currently pretty quick once the starter starts doing its job, the signal doesn't last long.

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                            • #29
                              if you're 100% on the wiring, get one off of a running car, and try that.
                              Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                              I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                              Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Bringing this back in case someone else comes across this issue...

                                I am now 100% positive the problem lies with the system voltage.

                                Earlier, I took my JimStim out, just for kicks, to hook up to the 7x sensor input on the module. Which, in the 7x wheel mode, would simulate the engine being turned over, without the starter drawing the battery power. I hooked the TACH wire on the stim up to the pin on the ignition module would be occupied by the 7x yellow wire, plugged the stim in, and turned it on. What do you know, I turned the RPM pots on the stim and doesn't everything light up and work just fine? Fuel pump runs, injectors fire, spark plugs fire (spare plug hooked up to #1 wire).

                                I'm getting a new battery next week. Hopefully by then I'll have this drive belt figured out...

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