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  • Circle Track Applications

    Hey all, I have read some great threads on here. Does anyone else use these little power plants for circle track racing. We would love to hear good or bad. Thanks

  • #2
    Hello,

    While not circle track I run one in a 24 Hours of LeMons car (Endurance Road Racing- one day of practice and two ~8 hour days per weekend). The 85 2.8L that came with the car died due to an unplugged fan relay. The 100K mile 3400 we replaced it with has given us no trouble over the last 3 years and 7 race weekends. Honestly it wouldn't hurt my feelings if it did die because we could build up the replacement. I would recommend a 185 T-stat as it's cheap insurance. How long are your races?

    Sam

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    • #3
      We race on a 1/4 to 3/10 mile tracks. The most laps that we would run would be 30. I was thinking about getting one from a Camaro or firebird and working with that. Can you suggest a build. My car is only 1400 lbs.

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      • #4
        If you have the option get the latest 3400 or 3500 engine you can. They are much more power dense, lighter, stronger and they have a roller valvetrain. If your forced to keep the iron head motor then a 3.4L is as good as it gets.
        1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
        1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
        Because... I am, CANADIAN

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        • #5
          At that weight it should be a blast with any of the engines you're looking at. That being said I would start with a 3400 if I were you. The the 3400 will be a little lighter since it has aluminum heads. It also has better valve angles, cross bolted mains, and a roller cam that you won't find in a 3.4L from a camaro/firebird. The downside is that you'll want to buy a metal intake gasket set which is a little pricey but not having to use a zinc additive with every oil change you'll make up the cost quickly . The 3400 also makes an extra 25hp (160 vs 185 according to the factory). Do you need/want to run a carb because that might push you towards a 3.4L?

          Sam

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          • #6
            Zinc Additive with ever oil change? Why in the word would you do that? A flat tappet cam running moderate spring pressure does not need the constant addition of ZDDP in every oil change. Or simply buy an oil that has a bit of extra in it. I run Redline oil with extended drains and I have contacted customer service and they have ensured me their oil will protect all but the most extreme flat tappet cam applications without additives. And by that they mean restricted racing classes that must run flat tappets but are not limited on cam specs. Some of these cams have valve lifts nearing 1" with high ratio rockers.
            1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
            1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
            Because... I am, CANADIAN

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            • #7
              You're probably right but knowing that most modern oils aren't formulated for a flat tappet cam I just put it in. I don't run an oil like Redline, I get whatever name brand Synthetic is on sale (<$25) and call it a day. I'm comfortable with this because I have a roller cam but with a flat tappet cam I'd be paying at least $15 more for an additive or a better oil and I'd still be nervous. Maybe flat tappets aren't as fragile as I imagine but the reward isn't worth the risk to me.

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              • #8
                They are defiantly not that fragile. Only when running extreme spring pressures and RPM. No daily driven cam should give any issue. Yes there was a couple years of trouble. But it was mostly due to a flood of Chinese lifters. If you had genuine COMP, Lunati or Crane cam parts (just naming a few) then after normal break in even normal oil will be fine with mild and moderate cams.
                1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
                1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
                Because... I am, CANADIAN

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, it has to be an iron head motor. I spoke with some guys out west that used these engines in off road trucks years ago. Seems that some of them are STILL using the Camaro and firebird engines. I was blown away with the mods they are doing and they live. I would love to hear some of the mods that you guys do to the iron head motors.

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                  • #10
                    Well if it has to be iron heads then start with the 3.4L F-Body motor or crate engine. Depending on where you live I have a complete F-Body engine for sale with intake and ECM in tact. You can mod a lot of stuff on it. Basically work on a budget and go from there. I have found the best bang for the buck is a COMP Cams K-Kit. However for racing use you might want a cam a bit more radical. Crane has some good offering in that department. Or COMP can make you anything you want. Some free in home stuff is de burring the heads and lifter valley to improve oil drain back. Gasket matching the heads and cleaning the ports of casting flash. Gasket match the intake to the head ports.
                    1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
                    1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
                    Because... I am, CANADIAN

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For a cheap upgrade grab the rocker arms off of an early 3100 (~94-95). They are 1.6 ratio instead of the 1.5 that the 3.4L came with. Make sure they are the non-roller type. I read somewhere that the biggest gain was to use the 1.6 ratio on the intake only. That's what I did for the old 2.8L. At least for the Fiero the intakes and exhaust manifolds are pretty restrictive, I imagine the F-Body stuff isn't a lot better. Can you use the Edelbrock intake? How about headers? If you pull the heads definitely smooth out the casting marks as mentioned. When I was looking at porting the iron heads there wasn't a lot of data and what was around didn't yield stellar results but maybe that's changed.

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                      • #12
                        All these mod ideas are great but you need to remember it's circle track... We need to know what rules he's dealing with, other than just having to be the iron head motor. I know in the class I help in you have a cam lift rule, you have a compression ratio rule, you have a piston weight rule, you have a rocker ratio rule, the are also other rules in place that do not allow you to touch the ports with any porting tools, and so on. SO until we know what he's dealing with then we can't give him LEGAL good ideas.

                        Got Lope?
                        3500 Build, Comp XFI Cam 218/230 .050 dur .570/.568 lift 113LSA
                        Fully Balanced, Ported, 3 Angle Valve Job, 65mm TCE TB, S&S Headers.
                        Stage-1 Raybestos/Alto 4t60e-HD, EP LSD, 3.69FDR
                        12.61@105 Epping NH Oct 2015 Nitrous 100shot (melted plugs) 13.58@98.8 N/A 3200LBS

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                        • #13
                          Rules Read; Must be an iron head iron block 60 degree v6. That's the rules, just like the throttle WFO.

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                          • #14
                            Great point on the rule book. I always assume that if you're building a race car you know the rule book despite the number of cages I see getting redone every race

                            That's a pretty sweet rule book!

                            If you run into bottom end trouble or you really want a roller cam 3.4L heads have been put on a 3400 block.

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                            • #15
                              That's a great idea, thanks. What else will make it buzz?

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