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You guys might like my new truck engine

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  • You guys might like my new truck engine

    Figured you guys would like to see this one. I have a 1991 S-10 truck, with the 2.8L V6. I started out with the intent of just swapping the Fiero valve covers to stop the valve cover leaks...then I wanted A/C that worked without having to screw with the compressors all the time...

    Then I grabbed a 3.4L Camarobird engine, wiring harness, and OBD1.5 computer for 140$.

    Then I got given a pair of genII alloy heads.

    Then I grabbed a complete 3500 top end for 140$.

    THEN I was re-arranging the "Shelf Of Power" and had to sit an M62 supercharger somewhere while I arranged the stack of M90s and re-located the pile of turbochargers so they didn't fall over on the intercooler cores. (Yes, this is a problem.)



    Sooo, this is where it's at now. RobertIsarr has been quite helpful with the computer side of things, tuning isn't new to me but this system is quite different from what I am used to working with.

    I will be using the Camaro accessory drive as it nets me a little more room where I want it, and lets me use the newer style A/C compressor. Has a Convenient place to bolt up the coil pack, and generally is usable. There are some modifications that have to happen to make this work, though.

    Headers have to be made:



    Power Steering brackets need to be modified:





    And the intake manifold needs a little work:







    The supercharger needs some re-arranging as well. I'm still working on that bit.





    ...Good enough.

    Still need to buy header tubing, get the cam reground, make pushrods, and get the intercooler fitted into place. Throttle is off of a Northstar, it's a little bit of a tight fit but it'll work fine.

  • #2
    Glad to see you made it over here....

    Always a fun way to build something... "Well I have this, and I have that, I can make this work!!"

    Glad to see you heeded my advice and went with a newer top end than the Gen2 stuff.

    psst Six_Shooter from hybridz/gearhead-efi.
    James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
    The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
    1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

    "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

    Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by The_Raven View Post
      Glad to see you made it over here....
      X2, for such an off-the-wall build, it would suck to not have the community that can appreciate it the most not see it.
      1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
      Latest nAst1 files here!
      Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

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      • #4
        The intercooler core showed up today, so I'll have a go at fitting it. I am not sure how to make it removable, though, in case it needs replacement. That is going to be tough.

        More supercharger case re-working tonight. This is where I started out, getting a 75mm tube out of the side of the super.



        Now I gotta close up the back end, get it all sealed up. I missed a porting shot, minimal porting was done, just smoothed out the short side turn as best I could.

        Added some gussets, then added a bunch of filler to get material to smooth out the turn:



        Getting the back panel closed up, and trimmed up the gussets some:



        Little bit of a whack with a hammer, it's 0.120" thick aluminum sheet so the hammer marks will get planished out before the sanding starts:





        End result for the night-about 60% welded. Still have the tough work to do in the morning, and then I have to hunt down some new case bearings. INA, the manufacturer of the bearing, is under a lot of pressure from Eaton to not sell them anymore. They *can* be had, though.



        I need to get some more work done on Derek's headers (The Raven knows...) before I get much more into this.
        Last edited by Xnke; 07-31-2015, 12:41 AM.

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        • #5
          Goofed around some more on this tonight. Here's the intercooler core, and yes, it's not very big. The core area is slightly larger than the supercharger outlet area.





          Those inlets are too small-6mm. And it's a 4-pass core, instead of the 2-pass that I thought I was getting.

          So, fix the inlets...First thing is to close up the old holes and weld a thick pad of aluminum that I can either drill and tap, or weld a tube onto.



          Checking to see how it fits down in the lower half-If I raised it up 5/8" of an inch it will fit absolutely fine. I am pretty sure I know how I'll do this now. Gonna be a lot of drilled and tapped holes...



          Had to pull the header jig off the temporary work table so I could mock up the belt drive-I can easily get the supercharger into place where the factory nosedrive will line up. I am VERY tempted to just make a pattern and pour a new casting, that will accept the supercharger mounting plate. This will let me use a bolt-on plate and for FWD or transverse mounted engines, and an un-modified supercharger could be used. For longitudinal applications, though, there isn't any room without chopping up the firewall. The supercharger case would have to be modified.



          Using the CamaroBird water pump means I may either add an idler pulley before going over the power steering pump, or have to modify the power steering pump bracket to clear the belt.



          I did yank that bypass pipe out today. It just isn't going to work for what I need it for and I'm using the CamaroBird bypass in the engine block, all that pipe does is recirculate water to the inlet of the water pump until the engine warms up-basically a thermostatic bypass. Once the engine is up to temperature and the main thermostat starts to open, the bypass pipe gets closed off and forces all the coolant to run through the radiator. This speeds up warmup times and gets the engine into closed-loop faster, which means lower emissions.

          I will have to drill and tap for the heater hoses, I think. Does anyone here have handy notes on getting the heater hooked up in an S10 truck? Should just be one hose from the water pump, and one hose from just behind the thermostat, I would think...

          Also just realizing that while the camaro accessories will simplify belt routing, they also mean giving up the clutch-driven fan of the S10, because it doesn't line up. That sucks. That engine driven fan just will NOT let the engine overheat, no matter what. I do have a Volvo 960 Turbo 16" 2-speed electric fan, though, so and it moves serious, serious air. It had to, to pull air through the A/C core, intercooler, oil cooler, and radiator on the volvo.

          Next on the list of things to fix is the temperature sending unit for the dash gauge. The iron head and aluminum gen2 engines have a port in the corner of the cylinder head, and the computer pulled temperature from the thermostat housing. I am planning to fit the stock 3500 temp sensor in the thermostat housing, and the gauge sending unit will most likely be another stock 2-pin sensor installed into the stock 3500 location. I am under the impression that the transfer curves for the two sensors are identical, GM uses the same sensor for oil temp, water temp, intake air temp, etc. Only difference is the two pin sensor needs one pin grounded to the block for the gauge to work.
          Last edited by Xnke; 08-01-2015, 12:55 AM.

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          • #6
            For heater core lines, use the inlet on the waterpump for one hose and attach the other hose to a fitting just behind the thermostat. On my 3500 lower I welded a 1/4" plate onto the lower intake, where the temp sensor is located on the earlier gen3 intakes (3100/3400) and drilled and tapped it for 3/8" NPT, then added a an NPT to pipe nipple to connect the other hose. On the opposite side of the thermostat housing, I tapped this existing hole for 1/2" NPT and then used a pipe bushing to thread in the coolant sensor. This is a 3 wire sensor from a 3400 (other engines use this same sensor), this allows for independent connections to the ECM and the gauge. This is exactly how my S10 was connected with my 3.2L hybrid. I'm using the same sensor in the Datsun, but just not using the gauge connection, though eventually I will be once, I get my gauges made up. For now though, I installed the probe for my mechanical gauge in the spot where the bypass tube was originally connected. I also changed to a 160* T-stat, that does not have the extension to restrict the bypass.

            ThermostatHousing01.jpg

            You can use a serpentine S10 water pump and retain the engine driven fan if you desire. I'm in the opposite boat, I have an S10 water pump, but would really like to run an F-body water pump, to gain a bit more clearance to my turbo and Y-pipe. *shrug*

            That's an interesting use of a PC cooling rad.
            Last edited by The_Raven; 08-10-2015, 01:27 PM.
            James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
            The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
            1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

            "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

            Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

            Comment


            • #7
              Finally! Some action in here!
              '86 Grand National

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              • #8
                Worked out a transmission solution for the aging, ailing, T-5 that is in my truck. Any 96-00 Dodge Dakota 2.5L manual transmission can be bolted up, with some driveshaft/mounting bracket work, and the clutch disk needs to be a 14 spline disk instead of a 10...or I could strip the input shaft out of the case and exchange it for a Jeep input shaft, as it would then use the stock clutch disk.

                This nets me a 2WD 5 speed manual transmission with decent strength, as opposed to a known weak T5. It's actually an NV3500 transmission, same as what GM fitted behind the 4.3L in the 94+ S10 trucks, so it should be strong enough.

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                • #9
                  Yep, although some guys have used just that bellhousing with an R154, for even more holding power. http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/66...on-option.html

                  I went with a Z32 trans and made an adapter plate for my conversion. I didn't like how wide the reported power handling range of the R154 or equivalent transmissions was. Anywhere from 400 to 700 hp, where as the FS5R30A has been known to take up to 700 HP no problem in the heavy Z32.

                  I did look at the AX-5 and AR-15 recently to see if I could find a more easily bolted up solution, but the transmissions were either pricey or seemed to have an undetermined (or low) power handling rating.
                  James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
                  The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
                  1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

                  "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

                  Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The difference being that the NV3550 from the Dakota is almost certainly going to be a direct-fit, there is no mucking about with mounts or anything. I just measured one and with the exception of the slip yoke, which wasn't in the truck, the shifter lines up, the slave and throwout bearing is the same, and the mounting points are the same. I have a 2.5L dakota clutch disk in the shop so I can see if it'll fit in the stock S10 clutch stack, if so then no need to swap the input shaft.

                    It's rated for 300ft-lbs input, but it was also fitted behind 5.9L V8s and the like. The few NV3500 internals I have laying about are almost identical to the FS5R30A you're using, as far as size and material, and the case is actually heavier cast. I don't see any reason why it would not be just as strong, although I have no proof either way yet. The R154 is just an AX15 with a slightly rearranged case and optimized gear ratios. Most of the "strong" parts in the R154 are workable in the AX15 case. Don't even try with an AW4/AW5/AX5...they're T-5 level transmissions.

                    Potentially the MA5/AR-5 from the Solstice/Sky/Colorado/Canyon would work, it's essentially an AX15 and I have seen turbo Skys run 400+HP through them. It shifts like a dream, too...Would need the Dakota bellhousing to fit it up. Might have the shifter wayyyya far back but it is a usable trans for the RWD swaps of the V6-60. Has triple-cone synchros, which aren't particularly appealing from a performance standpoint, but I'm not racing this truck.

                    The FS5R30A I have right now is strewn all over the shop for modification and rebuilding...Be careful with the 2nd gear shift and absolutely do not put anything rated GL-5 in the box...it WILL eat the synchros in 10-12k miles and 2nd will start grinding irreversably. Even the new upgraded synchro assembly doesn't fix the issue completely. It's an issue of full-size truck gears combined with sports-car style shifting feel that make the synchros susceptible to damage, they have to work hard to control the rotating mass, it's REALLY easy to push through the synchro. Also, the pressed-on engagement teeth are thin and slamming gears will break them off, can't abuse the shifter like the 'ol FS5W71C...you can literally break the shifter off and not damage the engagement teeth on that box!
                    Last edited by Xnke; 08-11-2015, 12:47 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Found a new cleaner for my aluminum parts-works pretty sweet. Zep Orange Clean, doesn't contain any of the acids or bases that cause the white-powder corrosion on aluminum. Works best for me heated to about 120F, so hot tap-water hot. Literally strips away grease and oil soaked into the pores, but doesn't get real deep-it will NOT replace a bake-out or torch-heating for weld prep. Found that out doing the valve cover, had to weld a 6mm thick plate over an old PCV hole so I can fit a new PCV valve, the original was riveted into place and was a known issue with the engine in its OEM application. By heating the parts up to 200F or so and washing in room-temp Zep, the grease got stripped out to welding-clean. Still didn't remove the intake port tar, but it did convert it to a crispy, flaky carbon-like deposit, that brushed out pretty well.

                      Since the heads needed a valve job anyway, I set the flow bench up in %Flow and started working on the intake port. I still don't have my calibrated venturis made, so I can only measure gains against the fixed orifice plate. I have what the stock heads flowed on a different bench on a different day, but using a clean valve and clean stock port, on the factory valve job, I set a baseline, then worked the port to produce a fair increase in flow while only removing 2.1CC's of material. Low-lift flow didn't suffer any, flow at 0.250" lift picked up 14%, and flow at 0.500" lift picked up 16%. Port is a little howly at 0.500" lift. At 0.550" lift it is louder, same pitch, and flow only picks up about 4% over stock. At least it didn't loose any! Stock, the port was quiet at all lifts. I did not open the gasket face of the port up any at all, MCSA is unchanged from stock. Mostly reduced and re-shaped the valve guide boss, the rest of the port just needed a little cleaning up of casting flaws around the valve seat. Port hasn't been cartridge-rolled yet, so it's right off the carbide. I didn't nick up the stock seats, so this is all on a stock valve job so far. The combustion chamber needs some attention, lots of sharp edges left over from the factory seat cutter, basically a sharp ring all the way round the valve on the intake. Exhaust valve has a nice smooth cut though, on most of the chambers. I will clean off the sharp edge and that's it for the chamber.







                      Found out that Comp Cams PN 26986 springs will fit the stock seats/seals/retainers, which is nice. These springs are made by PAC, as the model PAC-1286, and also sold as Scorpion Racing SRP-1286. They seem to be a universal spring with a 1" ID and 1.45" OD at the base, and with the 0.650" ID at the top, LS1-style retainers work too. LS6 springs can be made to fit by using LS spring seats with the ID opened up, plus some 4-cylinder valve seals, but lift is limited to 0.490" before coil bind becomes an issue...I would have thought they would do better than that. Installed height is shorter by 0.060" though so it shouldn't be a surprise. The Comp springs are slightly over budget at this point, but something will have to happen, as the stock springs checked out all over the place for spring rate...out of 12 springs, the deviation from mean was 22%.
                      Last edited by Xnke; 08-11-2015, 06:45 AM.

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                      • #12
                        incredible work, can't wait to see more.

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                        • #13
                          I've got a transmission in bits on my work table, followed by a stainless steel header that has to be made, so there won't be a lot of updates on this for a few weeks. When I get back to this, I'll be fixing up the accessory drive, test-fitting accessories and valve covers, and making headers. Maybe a bit more on the intake manifold before the headers, though.

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                          • #14
                            Glad to see I'm not the only one that has the bug... Mine is going to get more internal engine mods and serpentine belt set up this winter.
                            v6super.jpg

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                            • #15
                              Ok, transmission is out of the shop. Headers are on the operating table and hope to have them finished and shipped by next saturday. Then the heads go back on the bench to see what I can get out of the exhaust ports, get them cleaned up and sneak a little more flow out of them.

                              Once the ports are done, I'll see if the valves will lap back in (they should, seats are a little pitted but nothing major and no porting gouges so fingers crossed) and if they will, I'll surface the heads and start assembling the bottom end of the engine. I have a heat-treat oven and have made custom bolts before so we'll see-I might have to machine some four-bolt main caps.

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