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swapped 3500 heads

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  • #1

    swapped 3500 heads

    heres alittle info i have from just finishing the 3500 head swap...

    first of all the 3500 heads are NICE.. the combustion chamber is compareably smaller than the 3400 heads.. i cc'ed the 3500 heads and got 30.5cc if i remember correctly so its pushing 10 to 1 compression.. i used the 3400 head gaskets.. the 3500 heads requires use of the 3500 lower intake manifold and lower intake manifold gaskets.. i opted to use the lower intake manifold gaskets that go between the block and the lower intake seeing as the gap was way to big to fill with rtv like on the 3400.. the pushrod lengths on both 3400 and 3500 are the same.. i also tested the valve springs on the 3500 heads which turned out to be stronger than the ls1 springs..the 3500 lower intake manifold has no ect hole so you have to drill and tap that.. i used a 9/16" bit and a 3/8 npt tap to get that job done.. i also had to tap the heater hose hole with a 1/2 npt for my application.

    heads with almost no miles cost me 265bucks
    new head bolts 5bucks each need 16 bolts
    lower intake manifold new from gm 136.10bucks
    head gaskets 55 for both
    lower intake manifold gaskets 35bucks
    upper intake manifold gaskets 30bucks
    exhaust manifold gaskets 22bucks
    drill bit 20 bucks
    3/8 npt tap 8bucks
    1/2 npt 20 bucks (used it for alot of stuff.)

    total cost of swap was about 680 bucks...
    1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..
    Tags: None
  • #2
    and how does it perform???

    Comment

    • #3
      And how about some pics??? =) i'm really considering doing this, seems to be the best way to go for the money for a decent gain. just wondering about tuning and any codes that may get thrown.. gotta keep mine emissions friendly.

      Comment

      • #4
        hmm, the compression calculator says the 3400 head cc's is 26.4. i had mine cc'd and got 28. i believe that was set up by bszopi, so i can't believe it's wrong.
        Last edited by torq455; 10-14-2006, 04:52 PM.
        Andy

        sigpic

        fastest 1/8: 10.19@ 67.17
        fastest 1/4: 16.16@ 82.70

        62mm TB, 1.6 roller tip rockers, Ostrich 2.0, UD pulley, TB heater bypass, K&N, 180* stat, No cat, 99Grand AM dual cooling fans. 4T65E swap FDR 3.69, EP LSD, F.A.S.T. transmission controller, TransGo shift kit.

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        • #5
          Glad to see there is another person that has done the swap. What vehicle do you have and are you running it with a OBD1 or OBD2 computer?

          I have had mine on since March and it has been great, but it requires tuning.

          If I were you I would deffinately get it tuned. The Volumetric efficiency changes alot with this setup.

          Are you running the 3500 plenum as well? If so did you have any clearance issues with fuel pressure regulator and the plenum neck?

          I agree the new "valley" gaskets are awesome, eliminating the need for all the RTV. Did you have any trouble drilling the block? I used grease on the tips of the gasket, but if I think an ink pad would also work pretty well to locate the locations to drill. I found drilling the block for the gaskets to be fairly simple, and I am glad I spent the extra time to install them.

          What exhaust manifolds did you use, 3400, 3500, or headers?



          Also I think you are off on your compression calculations, if the 3500 heads were left stock (no milling) your compression ratio would be approx to 9:1

          Here is what Ben and I came up with:

          The 3500 head measures 32.4 CC's = 9:1 Compression Ratio

          The 3500 head milled .020 measures 31 CC's = 9.16:1 Compression Ratio




          Other info:

          Headbolts at Napa are $33.00

          You can get a complete top end gasket kit (head gaskets, LIM gaskets, UIM gaskets, valve seals, valve cover gaskets) for $140 shipped from GMPD

          Use the ECT sensor from the 3500, mounts in the side of the rear head, no need to tap and thread the LIM.
          Last edited by onefastV6; 10-14-2006, 05:33 PM.
          2000 Grand Am GT
          2011 Chevy Impala

          "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power." ~John Lingenfelter

          Comment

          • #6
            the car is listed in my sig.. if thats correct that great cuz the 9:1 is what i wanted for my soon to be turbo setup.. i figured out that the rear head had the ect plug after i installed the ect in the manifold.. wasnt hard to do and it didnt require me to extend the harness any.. i am running the 3400 plenum for now.. i have heard about the clearance issues with the fpr.. so i put that off til after i get this thing boosted then i will go with the 3500 plenum and 65mm tb.. but til then i have to finish putting the car back together so i can get it running.. i do have a dhp for the car so theres no worrys about the tuning.. lol i get gm employee prices on parts so i paid less for the head bolts.. i like sticking with gm parts.. thats just me...
            1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..

            Comment

            • #7
              Sorry, but I don't see the car listed in your sig.



              Also, what is your user name on DHP and what exhaust manifolds are you using 3500, 3400, headers?
              Last edited by onefastV6; 10-14-2006, 10:12 PM.
              2000 Grand Am GT
              2011 Chevy Impala

              "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power." ~John Lingenfelter

              Comment

              • #8
                In for pics... What did you do with the fuel rail?
                Past Builds;
                1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                Current Project;
                1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Superdave View Post
                  In for pics... What did you do with the fuel rail?
                  He didn't have to do anything, because he is still using the 3400 plenum.
                  2000 Grand Am GT
                  2011 Chevy Impala

                  "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power." ~John Lingenfelter

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    sorry i couldnt get my sig to fit.. here it is

                    1996 beretta w/a 00' 3400, 3500 heads 3500 lower intake manifold, running 3400 injectors, 180* hypertech thermostat, fidanza flywheel, spec stage III clutch, ffp udp, tranzgenic cold air, walbro 255 lph, ffp dogbone, Ingall Camber Bolts, GM strut tower brace, z51 rear sway, fe3 front sway, new 92 5sp tranny, 92 subframes, poly control arm bushings, poly sway bar bracket bushings, poly endlinks, poly z51 bushings, carcustoms poly mount, kyb shocks and struts, eibach springs, battery relocated to trunk, msd 3 bar map sensor, DHP Powrtuner(and a damn near perfect tune), euro headlamps, euro tails and more to come soon...

                    mods sitting in boxes waiting install.... ( t3 t4 63ar 60 trim, front mount intercooler, greddy rs BOV, tial 38mm wastegate, viper alarm, full zo4 kit, solid grill, GTU wing, and some other goodies

                    as for manifolds i am using the stock 3400 manifolds.. and am about to have the cross over made for my turbo..
                    no issues with the fuel rail.. my user name on dhp is rickykline.. i dont post much at all i spend most my time working on the car and there arent alot of 3400 enthuasist there all 3800 guys lol..
                    1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rickykline View Post
                      sorry i couldnt get my sig to fit.. here it is

                      1996 beretta w/a 00' 3400, 3500 heads 3500 lower intake manifold, running 3400 injectors, 180* hypertech thermostat, fidanza flywheel, spec stage III clutch, ffp udp, tranzgenic cold air, walbro 255 lph, ffp dogbone, Ingall Camber Bolts, GM strut tower brace, z51 rear sway, fe3 front sway, new 92 5sp tranny, 92 subframes, poly control arm bushings, poly sway bar bracket bushings, poly endlinks, poly z51 bushings, carcustoms poly mount, kyb shocks and struts, eibach springs, battery relocated to trunk, msd 3 bar map sensor, DHP Powrtuner(and a damn near perfect tune), euro headlamps, euro tails and more to come soon...

                      mods sitting in boxes waiting install.... ( t3 t4 63ar 60 trim, front mount intercooler, greddy rs BOV, tial 38mm wastegate, viper alarm, full zo4 kit, solid grill, GTU wing, and some other goodies

                      as for manifolds i am using the stock 3400 manifolds.. and am about to have the cross over made for my turbo..
                      no issues with the fuel rail.. my user name on dhp is rickykline.. i dont post much at all i spend most my time working on the car and there arent alot of 3400 enthuasist there all 3800 guys lol..

                      Cool, welcome to the club.

                      Just a heads up, you might want to look for a set of 3500 exhaust manifolds that is set up identical to the 3400 exhaust manifolds. They have a bigger port and match up to the heads a little better than the 3400 manifolds.

                      The 5 speed, must be alot of fun behind the new engine.
                      2000 Grand Am GT
                      2011 Chevy Impala

                      "The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power." ~John Lingenfelter

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        yeah i cant wait to get this thing on the ground and running (damn weather)
                        1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by onefastV6 View Post
                          He didn't have to do anything, because he is still using the 3400 plenum.
                          I thought the 3400 rail wouldn't work on the 3500 LIM w/o modifications... and the 3500 rail is returnless so it would have to be modified as well...
                          Past Builds;
                          1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                          1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                          Current Project;
                          1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            the 3500 plenum with fit it just doesnt fit with a afpr...
                            1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..

                            Comment

                            • #15






                              sorry about the quality of the pics is a lg chocolate takin the pics...
                              1996 beretta w/a 04' 3400 3.5 top end, 42.5lb hr, 180*thermo, t3t4 .63ar 60 trim, LC1 WB, FMIC, greddy rs BOV,TIAL 38mm wastegate,791xv,fidanza,stage III clutch,TG LSD,ffp udp,walbro 255 lph,strut tower brace,22 rear sway,30 front sway,92 5sp tranny,92 subframes,all solid mounts,kyb shocks and struts,eibachs,battery in trunk,tgp map sensor,DHP Powrtuner,euro front and rear and more to come soon...mods sitting in boxes waiting install....zo4 kit,GTU wing,and more..

                              Comment

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