96 Beretta Project

[3400-95-Modified]

Thank you mods... And yeah if I go bigger it will be a DP system... Somehow I'll make it fit

[IsaacHayes]

If you go big shot with nitrous, I'd go direct port or have some way when you engage the gas, the injectors squirt the extra fuel needed at that time. Should be safer in case fuel is puddling in the intake plenum somewhere or some cylinders run leaner than others due to this.

[3400-95-Modified]

If you are going to wander from N/A then IMHO, and from what I have seen, Nitrous is not the way to go.

I KNOW of a couple of 3400 Cavys with Turbos on stock engines on the J-Body Forums that are well into the 12's, and these are kids who don't know what the hell they are doing!!

(Really! Mars can confirm this!)

And there may be more news tonight. Rodney was heading to TMP tonight with his 3500 turbo/intercooled 5-speed that just may shock some folks.

FWIW!

It all comes down to I have the parts to continue to work with Nitrous right now... Am I going to stay there forever, Probably not.

And what do you mean wander away from N/A, How many times do I have to tell you I never intended this motor to EVER run N/A except on the street... I only did that at the strip to satisfy you since you kept bugging me about it.

Right now any direction I go in it all means LOTS of money to revamp the motor since none of the directions are geared toward what I have. N/A means a new cam, higher compression and so on... Turbo means all the turbo parts and pipe and so on.

I'm leaving it as is for now, I've made that decision and all I'm doing this winter is going through the trans and also inspecting motor components for any odd wear. If I have the time and can afford a set of head gaskets, maybe I'll port the shit out of it.

Also who says I can't just do a larger nitrous shot.... if you think about it those turbo's in the 12's are producing that much extra HP in just a different way. People always forget all that nitrous is doing is inducing more air/compression into your cylinders JUST like a turbo or supercharger, its just done in a different way.

BTW, Can this topic title be changed to "96 Beretta Project" Rather than the gloating title that well really doesn't apply with my whopping 14.8 1/4 mile times now... LOL

[MY91GT(Z)]

rodney better post up some times and you ol man ought to talk to him bout coming to the mini meet as many of us would like to see this car also

and IMHO if i had the money i wouldve loved to have bought johnnymossville setup high CR w/ cam headers and a 5spd lsd would be sick

[asylummotorsports]

If you are going to wander from N/A then IMHO, and from what I have seen, Nitrous is not the way to go.

I KNOW of a couple of 3400 Cavys with Turbos on stock engines on the J-Body Forums that are well into the 12's, and these are kids who don't know what the hell they are doing!!

(Really! Mars can confirm this!)

And there may be more news tonight. Rodney was heading to TMP tonight with his 3500 turbo/intercooled 5-speed that just may shock some folks.

FWIW!

[IsaacHayes]

If you want to go all out you could. But I don't think forged pistons are needed, not on these motors. Nor are forged rods. I mean you will break trans and axles and turn tires to smoke before breaking the rods if you have a good tune. Just boosting a stock 3400 makes stupid power is all I'm saying. You don't have to go all out to get a good bump in power with boost. SuperDave has a highly modded 3500 and is at a low 13 high 12, but boosted 3400's are in the 12's already. Mars is deep in the 12's with a supercharger and a cam. If he had a turbo it would be even better. Of course forged is always peace of mind rather than relying on having a perfect tune and running on the edge...

So your cam won't run boost well? Just nitrous? FI won't work well???

I don't like nitrous cause I don't want to have to find a place to fill, and pay for that. Street racing no. Hitting on ramps and twisty roads... yes.


A direct port setup would be sweet though. You could even tap and install them in the 3500 plenum it'self where the runners are or something like that...

You have a metal LIMG? I thought you assembled before they came out?

[3400-95-Modified]

You contradict yourself there, and also prove most of my points...

I don't have a good platform to not need the assist... I have a cam that is ground to be run off the assist... so I don't see your point. Other than that cam and springs I have a stock 3400/3500 motor.

If I port an polish all I will have to replace over the winter is head gaskets... The LIMG being metal you can reuse, just like you would the upper metal ones.

I don't want to start over again with the motor, I will never get what I paid for as far as my cam goes, so I'll be out money there... I'll never get what I paid for on the nitrous setup, so I'm out there... To do FI you would be stupid to not put in forged components... I know a lot of people do it on stock bottom ends, but as you noted, why not build it right... so why would you avoid the forged upgrade.

FI is a lot of overhead and special room needed to complete... The only thing that I would consider is a RMT setup if I could get my hands on the parts... But then I'm looking at 700+ in just turbo components, never mind what I'll be breaking after doing the upgrade.

I hate this "on all the time" BS too... who cares about it being on all the time what do you need it for? Street Racing??? Sorry but I'm not a fan of that. I go to the strip do my runs have some fun and then show the car off at car shows. I'm perfectly happy with having to "turn on" my extra power.

The more I'm looking into this whole deal I'm going to leave it as is, Port and Polish it, Re-do the trans with better clutches and sprags and a 3rd Z-pak so really my trans will get most of the attention this winter... And then I will be doing more tuning... and if I'm still not happy with that, I'll be working on a direct port setup. I can hit 12's with this setup.

[IsaacHayes]

Sell the nitrous and build something that makes power on strictly gasoline. You have a good platform now to not need the assist to be fast...

Yeah you'll have to decide if you want a NA beast and be proud that it's all motor, or do something with FI where you have tons of power...

You also have to think that gaskets cost $$$$. If you take apart the motor multiple times to P&P /etc time and time again you end up paying more for gaskets than if you would have just built it with FI or whatever..... Plus pistons are $$$ and then you have costs of overboring, etc.

FI you can leave the stock pistons and not open the motor at all... and end up being faster in the end with the only thing to refill is your gas tank...

FI is really the best power for the buck other than nitrous but that isn't "on all the time".

I vote you leave it alone and just save up and tweak and tune what you have without opening it up /etc. Then when a deal comes for maybe the vortec units grab that or fab up something else with a turbo and sell the headers. The J body guys could even use them and it seems more of them are doing 3400 swaps/builds than L bodies so I don't think it would be too hard to sell them.

[3400-95-Modified]

High comp pistons and a new cam.

Or throw on some forced induction and leave motor alone.... RMT? Ditch headers and go turbo? Hell buy loners setup! lol

See I'm really split on all of this because I invested into the Nitrous system...

I would have to do 2 things here to get to what your thinking... first off I would need the pistons, which yes I have already thought about... Biggest bang for the buck with my current setup, BUT then you noted new cam... I would only do that if I want to STAY N/A... Which I don't think I want to. And also I would have to off load my whole NOS system, and my old cam, but right about now I doubt I could sell a penny.

I'm very limited on funds on what I can do so I think for at lest over this winter and next summer the car will not change, I'll just have to work on tuning and possibly just port and polish the shit out of it this time, since right now it is only gasket matched.

I think the biggest thing that I would do to this if I got the money would probably be 10.5:1 .020 or .040 over forged pistons. That gets me to right about 10:1 compression on 3500 heads, higher for n/a and also still low enough to where I can give it some nitrous and not really worry about it exploding... But this is all pending money... Since pistons alone is $664.98... and if I did the cam like you said I would need another $469.98 So your talking about a $1134.96 bill BEFORE machine work... I doubt I could float that one. The $664 plus machine work is still way out of my reach right now.

[MY91GT(Z)]

i wouldnt mind seeing a build like superdaves or what johnnymossville had and see what it can put down with the 4t60

[IsaacHayes]

High comp pistons and a new cam.

Or throw on some forced induction and leave motor alone.... RMT? Ditch headers and go turbo? Hell buy loners setup! lol

[3400-95-Modified]

More of a joke about a 3.8 swap on a 60 degree forum

Ah yes, that flew right over my head like a bird... LOL

So... 3.4 pistons with 3500 heads... Please tell me thats not an 11.5:1 CR... If so I would rather stay away from that, because if I want to make any power then I need a better cam. Right now I have a boost style cam, its not geared toward N/A application so I'm always going to want to either run Nitrous at the strip OR eventually find a way to put some sort of blower on this... be it belt or exhaust powered

Also if I go diamond I get the coated skirts, and the fact that they are forged and will hold up better... Decision Decisions... We'll see how this winter goes with the new house and all...

[neo71665]

If you know anything about how tight a Beretta engine bay is you would have never suggested that

More of a joke about a 3.8 swap on a 60 degree forum

[IsaacHayes]

Dooo eeeet

[geldartb]

Put some 3.4 iron head pistons in there if you want to make it interesting

haha thats what ive been contemplating with mine since day 1. already had the pistons but when i had the 3400 heads on the CR would be uber high. now with the 3500 heads i bet it would sing nice and be the 11.5.1 that the cam wants.