F40 6spd conversion research

[robert 1980]

Well good luck either way man.I'll just be happy when it's running so we can race.lol
J/k

[woody90gtz]

So in your eyes the F40 would be a last resort? And how do I tell if these 0mi trans I'm seeing are 06 or 07+?

I took a look at the gear splits and they aren't far off a v6/3.61 282 like mine.

At 2000rpm with the 282 you're at:
12/20/30/44/57mph in the 6spd at:
11/20/32/44/55/67mph.

At 75 in 5th on a 282 is 2624rpm where 6th in the F40 would be 2221rpm...which is still more than the 2113rpm of a stock 4T60E Beretta. I think 6th gear would have a substantial impact on highway fuel economy. I got 32mpg with the 5spd setup, so it's not like I'm hurting for mileage but more is always better.

As I stated, one of the main reasons to swap to an F40 would be a BRAND NEW 0 miles unit. Brand new vs. brand new the F40 may not be that much stronger, but brand new vs. beat on I bet there is a substantial difference.

There are some later model 282s available that can be had used that would likely still be a better option. For what an F40 swap will cost you, you can probably buy a 282 brand new and have change left over. The 6th gear may not net you any additional fuel economy if your engine torque can't sustain that gear at cruise without significant throttle input. Did I mention first gear is terrible and second too much to take off from a stop in. On a power take off first gear is gone so fast it makes for a frustrating shift, not to mention the 06 trannies are temperamental and prompted some changes in the 07 model. Every once in a while first gear kind of disappears briefly and sometimes you're not in first eventhough you are in first. Yes you read it correctly.

[woody90gtz]

Jon, I split the trans to install the LSD and replace the bearings and seals that were easy to get to. I did not disassemble the trans any further than that. My guess is that a 180k+ shift fork just broke due to wear & tear. I put some hard miles on it for sure, and who knows what it was subjected to for the majority of its life. I do need to get it out and take a look.

As I stated, one of the main reasons to swap to an F40 would be a BRAND NEW 0 miles unit. Brand new vs. brand new the F40 may not be that much stronger, but brand new vs. beat on I bet there is a substantial difference. Any time I break something I would certainly prefer to upgrade rather than simply replace. Whether that is in the budget in this case remains to be seen.

Yes, sprung hub SPEC Stage 2+ and stock 3.1L flywheel.

[3400-95-Modified]

He has a completely stock 3400 at the moment with only headers... So unless he is planning on changing that I think any transmission upgrade is a waste of money.

I really think you need to determine the point of failure before you can necessitate any type of upgrade need.

[NateD4]

The problem I've seen with 282s are the mounts breaking. Once you fix that the case breaks.

BTW are you running a spring hub clutch?

As to the flywheels... I'm aiming for around $450. Certainly the ones I've seen are worth $500. But when you add steel wear surfaces the price tends to go up.

What kind of engine specs are we talking?

[3400-95-Modified]

You had this trans apart though and did a rebuild kit on it, are you POSITIVE it just isn't a result of that? Simply something went wrong? Hell I've done it before. I've heard of WAY more powerful cars than yours running just fine on a 282... Rodney comes to mind actually.

[woody90gtz]

Well, I did break a 282 drag racing, so the extra beef with the F40 is enticing. I spent a lot of money on axles, diff & clutch to make it all reliable, and the damn 282 itself went. You can also get an F40 brand new, and not well-worn 100k+ or even rebuilt like a Getrag. 500rpm lower cruise at 75 and the idea of the first 6spd Beretta are also some reasons I'm considering. I did put a T56 6spd in my Camaro and LOVE IT.

Nate, these custom swap parts you're talking about sound sweet. Any idea on price and timeline? Ideally an alum flywheel made for an F40 would be better than a spacer, but I've got a lot of irons in the fire and need to keep the budget for this project on the low side.

I'm considering a solid replacement. However I am going to attempt to take a quick look at harmonics to see how much that impacts the transmission.

It will have more of an effect on you than it will the transmission with noise/chatter at low idle.

[NateD4]

As I mentioned above I have a set of both G6 Manual and Cobalt SS axles. It is rather interesting to compare them. The G6 axles have a larger CV joint. However the Cobalt SS has a beefier axle (I suspect they are tubular). In my case since i am doing a 3900 LZG engine swap I plan on using the G6 axles and mounting bracket as it should be a pure bolt up.

The flywheel arrangement on the F40 is interesting as well. The stock flywheel is pretty intricate and has some special harmonic damping springs in it. I'm considering a solid replacement. However I am going to attempt to take a quick look at harmonics to see how much that impacts the transmission and engine life span.

[NateD4]

The F40 is an interesting swap. I am getting ready to order some custom intermediate axels as well. Again if anyone else wants some let me know. I can have them made to length while the spline cutting hobs are set up.

[NateD4]

I have a spare Getrag 282 (or 2) if you want one. One was rebuilt 30K ago and the other one I can order a rebuild kit for and rebuild it for you.

I also have an F40 in swap progress. I have the stock G6 flywheel, g6 manual axles, and cobalt SS axles.

If you need any info for an F40 let me know. I am looing at having some custom made Aluminum flywheels. If anyone else wants one maybe I can do a group buy.

I can use my flywheel and a $375 spacer from V8Archie instead.

You didn't mention that before and yes of course it makes more sense to take that route however, to upgrade to an F40 for the sake of an upgrade is probably not a wise thing to do. Usually those who do it are looking for more reliability behind a much more powerful motor than what the 282 is found attached to. I wouldn't recommend it otherwise.

[woody90gtz]

As far as flywheels are concerned, whatever bolts to the 3400 will bolt to the 3900. It's just a bored and upgraded 3500 that's all.

That was my assumption, but wanted to make sure. So that same custom flywheel would work for me, but at $700 it's not cost effective, when I can use my flywheel and a $375 spacer from V8Archie instead. I'm sure it weighs a few pounds less, but nothing I'm concerned about.

It appears to be big money to swap an F40 no matter how you slice it. Seems the upgrade might not be worth the extra investment.

Thanks for the thread. That's a good read.

I called Clutchmasters and they said that flywheel was a one-off that would cost about $700 for a copy of it, and more like $1000 if I needed any changes to the design.

Does the 3900 share the same crank mounting flange as a 3400 and would they be interchangeable? In other words, could a 3900/F40 car use the same 3.1 flywheel and V8Archie spacer & clutch setup as a typical Fiero would?

As far as flywheels are concerned, whatever bolts to the 3400 will bolt to the 3900. It's just a bored and upgraded 3500 that's all.