3800 Vs 3400/3500

[SappySE107]

Ok, and I have to bring up something else. How can you say "under the curve" when you dont know the powerband of the 3500/3900. Their curve may be better than the 3800. I thought I read something about VVT for the 3900. Your numbers are for 1 RPM point.

[nocutt]

Ok, and I have to bring up something else. How can you say "under the curve" when you dont know the powerband of the 3500/3900. Their curve may be better than the 3800. I thought I read something about VVT for the 3900. Your numbers are for 1 RPM point.

Reread my post...don't take what I posted out off context...what I posted was bench racing...
My point exactly? None...if no one has seen the power band of the 3900...then guess what? There is still no point talking about it is there? As far as performance is concerned! Now if we are talking about the 'crap' (use loosely) that sells cars...then the 3900 will beat the 3800 hands down...honestly though you really don't need to see the "powerband of the 3900" to draw and educated guess..if any one, you or brad can be very close No matter what, it will be a peaky curve look at the specs "Provided".
Engine management has a lot to do with it...a lot!! I will have loved to proove that but I know you really don't care...you know moot point!?!? Everyone has their own notion, ideology and realm for performance...this is why you have 'right extremist' who believe in solemnly Natural Aspirated power and then you have at the other extreme hardcore Unatural aspirated power (insert "angle of separation" here too)...it becomes very mushy in the middle...which is exactly were I am...GM released the L67 from the factory with an SC and therefore...it isn't a power adder, it is part of the engine just like an accessory. I can sit here all day and try to reiterate but it is obvious I will be talking to the hand.
Yes if we are discussing the engine and it "revolutionary" technology hands down the 3800 either of 'em is no match...but you cannot use peformance in the same breath, when it comes down to brute power...the 3800SC takes the cake...archaic or not...several threads and I didn't understand the point? Now I do...I guess it is a case of something old getting replaced with something new...big deal! What will replace the 3900?

What about porting the 3800 heads, what kind of flow numbers can you get from it. What about combustion chamber design? There is plenty to discuss, but don't think this is NA vs SC.

Do you really care about those flow numbers Ben? Yes there is plenty to discuss, but I get the point if we are discussing "technological marvel"...those things don't phase me...I mean if we are talking DOHC then I see what is there to argue over...but pushrod This is like LS6 owners acting all high and mighty because of the new stuff over the LS1

Why is GM scrapping the 3800 and building up its 60V6 lineup?

Because GM loves money and we are all pawns..." If you build it they will come"

[SappySE107]

How can you say the 3900 will be peaky? I think you are trying to read my posts wrong or something, cause you reply to them as if I just kicked you in the nuts. What we know about the 3500 and 3900 are the internals, and the design. We know it uses the same heads as the 3400. Why the fuck would I ask about 3800 flow numbers if I didnt care? You are the one talking about the 3800 and how it rocks, not me...I dont research 3800 specs, flow numbers, or even dyno charts. That is your responsibility in this discussion, if you choose to accept.

Computer matters, sure, I tune them...I think I know all about computers influence on the engine. However, you make it seem as if that has something to do with the engines. I can take an L67 and run it off OBD1, or take a 2.8 and run it OBD2 (well I cant personally, but it can be done). Im just taking away that variable cause the computer is not the engine.

Maybe someone else wants to talk about the L67, its SC, and how its obviously not a power adder cause GM put a supercharger on an NA engine and released it. I dont comprehend how a supercharger is magically not a poweradder since GM slapped it on there...but ok.

The only thing the 3800 ever had for it was displacement and iron heads for boost. Thats my view.

[nocutt]

How can you say the 3900 will be peaky? I think you are trying to read my posts wrong or something, cause you reply to them as if I just kicked you in the nuts.

Ben trust me...I am far from that...this is a BB...whatever you say is your opinion even though you back it up with facts...you post this in a 90 degree V6 board any for that matter, you will still be challenged by skeptics! Anyways look at the specs again, where is the 3900 making its PK torque? Hope it sheds some light on some of the characteristics of this engine...will it be peaky? IMO it might be, but it sure won't be flat!...but that is why the board exist...I don't have to swallow what you say nor do you as long as we both remain civilzed as opposed to a full page of non-qualitative info...

What we know about the 3500 and 3900 are the internals, and the design. We know it uses the same heads as the 3400. Why the fuck would I ask about 3800 flow numbers if I didnt care? You are the one talking about the 3800 and how it rocks, not me

Like I have said in the past and I will always say...I am a fanatic to GM V6's 60 or 90...I don't ever get caught with the BS and crap...I am not a an opponent or a proponent...if I were challenging the stats, then I will post something that matters...I am looking at this objectively...nothing more...I have accepted the engines is ways "advanced" than either 3800 but we are still comparing apples to oranges when we are talking power or even engine as a whole for that matter... anywayz if you cannot accept the L67 has NO power adder then you just don't, it is your perogative...

..I dont research 3800 specs, flow numbers, or even dyno charts. That is your responsibility in this discussion, if you choose to accept.

Neither do I...it isn't my responsibility as long as the 3900 has none...I needed to understand the rest of the hullabaloob...I did and have accepted, however we seem not to see eye to eye on that one issue

Maybe someone else wants to talk about the L67, its SC, and how its obviously not a power adder cause GM put a supercharger on an NA engine and released it. I dont comprehend how a supercharger is magically not a poweradder since GM slapped it on there...but ok.

LOL! Well Ok Ben...you and I know it is far from that...hey but that is OK too...The term power adder is very subjective...lets just say "Stock" from the factory...in my eyes, power adder refers to FI been added after the fact at least within the realms of this discussion....

The only thing the 3800 ever had for it was displacement and iron heads for boost. Thats my view.

The only thing the Grand National had was it's displacement, iron heads and boost...what is your point!?!? Now that will be a good comparison, but I already know what will be the answer...

Why does this topic exist 3x00 vs 3800? is it inferiority complex or State of the art technology?

[SappySE107]

its existed for a long time, when the L67 became a popular swap because the 60V6 had no aftermarket or "potential" to people. Im a DOHC person now, so a discussion with the 3.6 DOHC or 3.4 DOHC would interest me a heck of a lot more than the 3500 or 3900. Im more interested in the new pushrods though over the 3400 and older due to the internals changing.

[bszopi]

This is from the GM Press Release for the 3900....

The two new technologies combine to give the 3900 V-6 high specific output and torque across a broad operating range, along with a lusty dose of torque that peaks at a low, satisfying engine speed. The 3900 is estimated to develop 240 horsepower at 5900 rpm and 245 lb.-ft. of torque at just 2800 rpm. Moreover, thanks to the 3900’s torque-enhancing technologies, 90 percent of peak torque is available from 1800 rpm to 5800 rpm, enhancing the engine’s driveability and performance “feel.”

I dunno, but that doesn't seem "peaky" to me...

[ikessky]

LOL! Well Ok Ben...you and I know it is far from that...hey but that is OK too...The term power adder is very subjective...lets just say "Stock" from the factory...in my eyes, power adder refers to FI been added after the fact at least within the realms of this discussion....

Seriously?!?!?!? If you brought an L67 to any sort of sanctioned drag race, you would be put in the power adder classes. It doesn't matter if a SC came from the factory or not, it's still a power adder. I suppose next you are going to say that a turbo on a Subaru WRX isn't a power adder either because it came from the factory....

[SappySE107]

fuel injection? Where did this come from?

[Rhedalert]

Here comes another 5 pages: FI vs Carb vs n-n-n-n-nocutt vs FWD

[ikessky]

Errrr...... that's my bad Ben. That's what you get when you read stuff and reply too early in the morning!!! FI=forced induction not fuel injection.

[pontiac92gp]

Oh, and did you know theres a 3.5L engine that has more power than your 3800 or H.O Yamaha engine? Hows 285HP n/a sound? Made by Nissan and considered the best V6 in the world.. so whats you f'n point??

phuck nissan .. there 3.5L can kiss my ass

[SappySE107]

I dunno why the SHO or 3.5 Nissan was brought up, they are DOHC engines. 285 NA can be had from the 3.4 DOHC 60V6 as well, not even really pushing its capabilities. Its all non pushrod, which is why I let it go...this isnt a DOHC debate.

[GPXSS]

phuck nissan .. there 3.5L can kiss my ass

[SappySE107]

Hahaha, chris is a nissan fan:P

[nocutt]

LOL! Well Ok Ben...you and I know it is far from that...hey but that is OK too...The term power adder is very subjective...lets just say "Stock" from the factory...in my eyes, power adder refers to FI been added after the fact at least within the realms of this discussion....

Seriously?!?!?!? If you brought an L67 to any sort of sanctioned drag race, you would be put in the power adder classes. It doesn't matter if a SC came from the factory or not, it's still a power adder. I suppose next you are going to say that a turbo on a Subaru WRX isn't a power adder either because it came from the factory....

'Sanctioned Event' within the realm of this discussion...don't you get it!?!?
Power adder or not...it is still a stock item don't you agree? So if it is stock then add it to comparison above...it is only fair...!! Speaking of 'sanctioned Events' you don't see SC vs NA (still not within the realms of this ensuing discussion)...well typically except when the competitors opted for something different... hold on let me add this LOL!

Here comes another 5 pages: FI vs Carb vs n-n-n-n-nocutt vs FWD

Hey...I like carb, but luv FI