Coil Pack keeps going bad

[jeffreylane]

also, just to add. When the coil pack would go out, I did not ever check individual coils to see if they went bad or just the ICM. More than likely it was the ICM going bad since it would not start or seem to fire on any of the cylinders.

[jeffreylane]

ok, I've drove to work 2 days on it and so far so good. Yesterday, I even added about 10 extra miles to the trip home to make sure I gave it ample opportunity to mess up if it felt the need. The wiring should all be the original. The motor was swapped, but the factory a/c retained, so the wiring is all the same as well. The only wire that appears to have been changed under the hood is the crank sensor wire (which I changed).

[96lumina]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A/C clutch just a simple electro-magnet, which really isn't going to care (or draw more power) when the compressor stops spinning? Even if it were the case it sounds more like if that has something to do with it, the compressor clutch would be pulling the system voltage down, then when it cuts out the regulator wouldn't be coming out of a full load type of setting which would over-volt the ICM, but that still doesn't explain how it's eating coils too. Even if what I said were the case, I would think the ICM has some sort of regulators in it (like the ECM) to keep from damaging the circuit if the regulator were to short out or something freaky happened to the system voltage.

Yes!, the A/C is a electro-magnet, this is whey GM installed a diode at the compressor so it will not spike the electrical system as it engages and disengages...as for the electrical draw from the A/C, in a world were everything works great, sure...very little load, now take a very worn compressor that is on its last leg and engaging the compressor would be like installing a direct short to the system that shares the same components...I'm not familiar with this particular vehicles wiring system but it sounds like GM either did a booboo or some tweeker has been under the hood at one time...I know the A/C has a fuse and am curious as to why it is not blowing out and why it is sharing with the ICM and the coil pack?!...does the wiring look to be original or does it look like Micky Mouse has been working under your hood?...if it were me I'd start with an electrical schematic and determine how this stuff should be hooked up...sounds to me that somewhere somebody bypassed the original A/C fuse, maybe...but you should look into it cuz if you were to pull the A/C fuse the car should still run...this is why I say you should get a book to see how these components are powered cuz something to me doesn't sound right.

[pocket-rocket]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A/C clutch just a simple electro-magnet, which really isn't going to care (or draw more power) when the compressor stops spinning? Even if it were the case it sounds more like if that has something to do with it, the compressor clutch would be pulling the system voltage down, then when it cuts out the regulator wouldn't be coming out of a full load type of setting which would over-volt the ICM, but that still doesn't explain how it's eating coils too. Even if what I said were the case, I would think the ICM has some sort of regulators in it (like the ECM) to keep from damaging the circuit if the regulator were to short out or something freaky happened to the system voltage.

[96lumina]

Let me explain the electrical load on the coil pack, good catch!...when the A/C clutch is engaged it draws current just like a blower fan motor does on your heater...now if you were to stop the blower fan while it is still trying to run, keeping it from spinning while still drawing current it will draw as much as it can until the alternator maxes out or until the circuit protection pops(fuse/circuit breaker)...with this much draw it is overloading the the other components and causing a direct short to ground after the compressor heats up enough...what you can do is figure out why your circuit is not protecting the other components...but if you want a simple solution just install a 30 amp water tight fuse in-line of your A/C compressor, if your new compressor decides to go south then the fuse will blow and your car will still run fine...I hope this info was helpful

[pocket-rocket]

Yes, there are o-rings there. I imagine if you take them in to the parts store they should have some. Worst case, you could go to the dealership to get them. I can't imagine them being too expensive, I mean the distributor plug o-ring is fairly cheap. If you go to the parts store, make sure you tell them the o-rings are for A/C. I'm not sure, but A/C ones could be made of a different material than normal o-rings. Maybe someone else with more experience in this area will chime in. Was it a new compressor, or a used one? If it was new, I'm shocked it didn't come with new o-rings.

[jeffreylane]

Ok, I got the air conditioner compressor swapped out, but not gassed back up. Put a new coil pack on it, and it cranked fine. I drove it around town for about an hour today straight. Cutting it off and on at times to test it. Everything ran fine. I think I need a new set of plugs from the misfiring, but other than a slight miss, it ran fine. Cranked up great every time. Not celebrating victory yet though, it has been "fixed" before. I tried to add r134a to it (taking this time to gripe about the placement of the low line input. My wifes cavalier right on top. didn't even get dirty. then had to fish my arm and can down behind the hot motor on the bu......arghhhhhhhhhh, ok, got that out of my system). Anyways, the gas was leaking out pretty fast out of where I hooked the lines back up to the compressor. I didn't look at it close, but I'm guessing there are o-rings on this part where to 2 lines hook up at the compressor. I"m guessing, o-rings in which I need to purchase. Tried to look them up on autozones website, but no luck. Anyone know where I can get these o-rings?

[jeffreylane]

Yeah, I've been trying to think through how this would be effecting the coil / ICM. I guess it could be putting extra strain on the engine? but then again so does going up a hill. I'm guessing it lies somewhere with the electrical that engages the a/c clutch. If it keeps going on and off, or maybe freezes when it's on, maybe that overloads that electrical circuit and somehow affects the coil pack. It definitely has something to do with it. If all goes well, I"ll change it out on Saturday. Hopefully the bu will be rolling again soon. I would love to hear someone explanation of how this could cause the coil pack to go out if anyone has a hypothesis.

[60dgrzbelow0]

FWIW...

I know that generally speaking... Sex, Politics and Religion and the Paranormal are eschewed on the forum... but I'm hoping that this slightly odd suggestion might have some merit and serve you well and truly in "Cleansing the Astral Field"... But keep in mind that I always have my actions and principled thinking very well "grounded" (pun intended). In this case, I will suggest something I encountered as an investigator that was kind of freaky...but worked. This had to do with a crime scene being "Visited" by some unseen entity that quite successfully was scaring the sh*t out of the survivors. The solution came in the form of a gifted elderly woman who surprised everybody by walking quietly through the house with an un-opened box of Morton Salt under one arm until she found the right "place" where all the odd goings on were taking place. Then... after mumbling her way through a basic Christian prayer... she promptly opened the seal on the salt box and poured a small quantity of the chemical compound in all four corners of the room. Then she smiled and was about to leave when I stopped her and basically asked, "WTF was all that about, Ma'am?" She gave me a knowing smile and said, "The Salt is PURE...and with God's Blessings... will work best in cleansing and purifying anything unclean from what happened here..." and then she left... That night I got a call form the survivor family and the good news was that all was finally quiet and they were very much relieved and in need of a good night's sleep... So ...I don't know... I suspect spilling some salt around your garage might not hurt...as long as it is not allowed to get wet and become an electrolyte...

[pocket-rocket]

Interesting... I wonder how that had an effect on the coils/ICM. At first I thought brown out like conditions, but you have the battery to keep the cars voltage up... Very strange, but interesting at the same time, lol. I hope this is the fixer for you.

[jeffreylane]

ok, I think I have it figured out now..... I cranked the car and turned the air conditioner on. Turn the lights on as well to give it some extra draw. Car ran fine for about 10 min or so. I was waiting to hear the coil popping, but instead I heard a low wine sound from time to time after about 10 min. I noticed the ac compressor was freezing momentarily then breaking loose, then freezing again, and the belt just slipping around the pulley. When it would do this, the motor would stutter (just like the motor was doing originally). Another good freeze up, the motor hiccuped a few good times, then the coil pack / ICM went bad. Would not start back up. It was worth a set of coils to see the problem finally. Good news it I have another a/c compressor here. I'll put that, as well as pick up another set of coils for it, and replace it all this weekend. Hopefully this big saga will come to an end. I"ll let you guys know what happens after I change everything. I guess with the belt slipping and all, it was doing crazy things with the alternator.

[jeffreylane]

This has become very personal,lol. I have celebrated victory of figuring out the problem at least 3 or 4 times now only to knocked back down and left stranded by this car. I hate this car. I don't have a lot of desire to own this car right now, lol. Otherwise it is a paperweight in my driveway. I cant get any money out of it like it is now. I don't want to lie to someone and give the problem to someone else, I know how it is for the family to be stranded. The other option would be to sell it as parts or part it out, and craigslist is full of them for $500. I'll keep trying for a little while longer, not yet ready to be beaten......
With that said, I havent had time to get back out and mess with it anymore. I spent the weekend putting a header on the wife's car. The exhaust had broken (Was running straight out of the down pipe) where the po had put in a piece of flex pipe instead of a real down pipe. Figured I might as well upgrade It was fun on my back outside during some of the worst weather we have had in TN in a while. It was fun on my back under the car in water, tissue in my ears to block out the nearby tornado siren. I've been recovering since,lol. The alternator would make a lot of since. There has to be something causing the voltage to spike bad enough to destroy the coil or ICM. I looked around briefly, I noticed that where the hot wire goes eyelet on the back of the alternator is, it had been broken off when putting it on, and the wire was just tightened under the nut. I did the repair in a parking lot. The rubber boot had worked its way off of it. I didn't see any wires touching it. And there were no uninsulated wire nearby. If life doesn't throw anything else my way, I'm going out tomorrow after work to try and figure out what it was that caused the car to start when I wiggled the battery cables. Sounds like some kind of exposed wire somewhere.

[96lumina]

I'm actually surprised you still had the car, LOL...it sounds to me like your alternator is making way too much power, this would explain the electrical problems you are having, including the time when the A/C is on...check around the battery for exposed wires that might have rubbed against the battery which would cause the car to continue to run on its own...even though you got a new alternator doesn't mean it's working right...I once went thru 3 alternators(brand new off the shelf) before finding a good one...I would have it shecked cuz it sounds like the internal regulator is not working right...this would cause your coil packs to keep going out...as for the starting problem that is another problem you have...keep us informed

[jeffreylane]

When I changed the ignition out before, while searching for the problem, I had replaced the entire switch. I mean it is possible that one has a problem now. There are tornado warnings/watches for most of the day today, so not sure if I'll get a chance to work on it this weekend. Soon as I get the opportunity, I"ll got out and play with it a little more and see what I can figure out.

[pocket-rocket]

Actually that whole insane span of Twilight Zone you experienced sounds like a bad ignition switch. Not the key portion, but the actual switch that turns circuits on and off with the key. It could actually explain your non run condition too. I've seen some do some strange things. One was in an Envoy. It would be fine until you started it. Once you started it and had it past the run position in the start position and returned it back to run, none of the gauges worked and the trans would start out in 2nd or 3rd gear. While the new switch came in (had to order it) I jumpered a hot on the gauge circuit (which apparently powered part of something to do with the transmission) fuse with another fuse so it would work out. I figured that was better (since I was using the fused side so it was safe) better than changing a torque convertor down the road from the 3rd gear starts, especially since this is a 4wd model.