My 3.4 Won't Run!!!

[Sonyman]

when i verified fuel, i turned the fuel rail upside down so i can see it spray, hooked the sensors with the plenum on the side (TPS, IAC, MAP Sensor, Coolant Temp Sensor, EGR Valve), out of 10 times, i saw the injectors spray once quickly 3 times. It sprayed when i turned the key back from "Crank" to the "On" position. Is this the way it works itself? I thought i would see a sequential spray when each cylinder reach its point to fire. Anyway i took a day off from work just to do these tests, let me know what you think. i'm open to telephone conversation to make faster communication if you're game.

[Sonyman]

I tried squiting some fuel down the throttle body and it ran but rough and missing plus i had to keep my hand of throttle to keep it alive but that was a year ago. Now if it starts, it runs on its own....oh yeah i dropped the tank, cleaned it blew out the fuel lines and put in what it has now almost a full tank of fuel. So that had already been checked and done. Is it possible for ALL 6 injectors to die at the same time? I think i'll do the fuel rail thing today and see what happens. Just to clarify, this problem occurred a year ago and a half, all of what has been done to correct the problem has happened within the last few months so pretty much the problem should be near to show its ugly head

[grandprixgtp_91]

were you just driving in a straight line, or were you accelerating when it died, also how long had you been driving for and was the engine warm or just getting there. have you tried spraying quick start into the throttle body while someone tries cranking it over? if it starts up like that, then you have a fuel issue, but i would take your fuel rail out and make sure all injectors are spraying, because you might have bad injectors, also if the car has been sitting for a year and a half, i would get rid of the gas in it and put some fresh stuff in, just jump the fuel pump and disconnect a fuel line and let it run into a container until its empty then run some new gas through the same way to get the old gas outta the lines. bad gas can do wierd stuff.

Jake

[Sonyman]

Ok well to all who have posted reply to this headache i'm trying to fix, thank you. I'm about to retire, my head hurts. I'll check any more postings in the morning before i start on this again. Please reply as detailed as possible and i'll read them in the morning. Thanks to all of the 3.4 family

[grandprixgtp_91]

yeah you will see spark jumping from the coil terminals where the spark plug wires go, spark will jump back and forth between them

Jake

[Sonyman]

when you say Arch tower to tower, you mean i should see sparks between the towers? MY ignition module is above my starter in front of the engine not up by the map sensor on top of the engine so i wont be able to see whats going on. elaborate please

[dohcfiend]

you can check your grounds by doing a ground continuity test.

sounds like you are going to have to start over.

1.verify spark. pull your plug wires out and crank the engine to verify they are arching to ground. also try pulling all 6 wires off of your coilpacks and cranking the engine, if your crank sensor is functioning correctly, it should arch tower to tower.

2. verify fuel. you already have pressure. pull your rail but keep your lines hooked up, set the rail over a container to catch the fuel, be sure to hook up your tps or this will not work. 1st click on the ign, see if any injectors are leaking, then crank the engine to verify they are spraying.

3. verify compression. hook up a compression tester and verify you are getting proper compression.

4. verify sensors.

your tps should read somewhere close to 1.5v off of the signal wire with your ign on and throttle closed.

i forget what your map should read, you'll have to figure it out.

with the coil arch test we kind of verified the cps. only way to actually test it is with an oscilliscope as far as i know.

i do not know about how to test the icm but with the arc test should verify the icm as well as the coilpacks.

iac if you fear your iac is closed you can turn your idle screw up to let in air.

verify timing.

pop your intake off and both of your valve covers, rotate your engine to tdc 2 of the cam flats should face up and 2 should face down. rotate your engine to tdc again, the 2 flats that were up should be down and the set that was down should be up.

that is all i can think of for the moment. double check your connections if none of this works.

[Sonyman]

What i did to check if the crank sensor is putting out is i connected a mulit-analog tester to one of my fuel injector wire harness. When i cranked the engine, the needle moved with the motion of engine cranking so that should justify in order to get a reading all the way up there on top, the crank sensor must be working because after all, ignition timing starts first at the crank sensor...right?

[Sonyman]

You hit the nail on the head on your second statement. I was driving home one day and it started stalling and then died as if the fuel pump stopped. That was a year and a half ago!! Yeah you read right, i've been dealing with this for over a year..nuff said on that. The fuel pump has been replaced three times by listening to the other fools who had the car checking it out. But you're right, it's got to be within the top 3 or ECM or wiring between it all. That is what erks me. On one hand this should be an easy problem to solve but on the other hand its looking like it may be in solvable and thats B.S. in itself! My thing is if your pour gas on the floor and throw a lighted match on it, it will explode with fire right? Well in relation to my car situation, that theory is not correct

[grandprixgtp_91]

did you check the connectors for the crank sensor, on my one gtp i had the pins inside the connector bent a little bit from probing and the car wouldnt run, but i think i lost fuel and spark, so id definatly check out the fuel and spark and make sure that they are there.

Jake

[Sonyman]

Thanks, sorry to hear about your wife. Take care of her. She's your first priority. Only thing i can add is from the fuel pump to the injector has either been checked or replaced. From the crankshaft sensor to the spark plug has either been checked or replaced. New ECM, same chip inside. The only other possible thing i can think of is faulty wiring (grounds maybe) messing up the communication between the ECM and sensors throughout. I mean how can you tell if a ground wire is bad or faulty by looking on the outside? You can't so tomorrow i'm going to cut and replace ALL ground wires in the engine bay. If that dont work then my car has been put a spell on it.

[grandprixgtp_91]

yeah i hear what your saying, i just never thought a GM dealer would turn you down, they must be a bad dealer. lol we never turn down any work. when you think about it , theres only 3 things you need to make the car run,

1: fuel
2: spark
3: compression

so somewhere in there you got a problem, unless your cam timing is off, but you say its not,

what happened before the car stopped running, did it just not start one day, or were you driving it when it died? if so what happened?

Jake

[1994KlrWhaleOlds]

Hmmm...I know the feeling...I do all my own work on my 3.4...The previous owner had taken it to 8 different shops and they wouldn't touch it.

I'm just down in Austin but have a very sick wife and that would make it difficult for me to take a ride to Grapevine. Or I'd definitely do it...I'll pour through the service manual tonight and see if I can think of anything else.

[Sonyman]

Fuel pressure read "38"...my head is starting to hurt! I just don't know anymore!

[Sonyman]

No i haven't thought of taking the fuel rail out to see if it sprays. Believe it or not i'm taken it to three shops and they got scared and didnt touch it because of the complexity of a 3.4 What complexisty?!! Even Pontiac dealership didnt touch it, they said it was too old? Aint that about some shhhh. Its all up to me to fix this. No trouble codes comes up Yeah i've spent millions it feels on parts to fix this problem but this gives you an idea of what predicument i'm in. I dont have anyone who can offer help and it me out here by myself. No friends or family close by. Ya feel me on that Jake?