Considering a head swap, suggestions?

[StudlyCamaro]

I don't know anyone with a 3.4 Camaro so I can see how the engine mounts. I was going to buy some engine mounts to use for measurements. The mounting holes on a RWD block are not symetrical but when I look up the P/N for engine mounts, it lists the same for both sides. Are the two sides interchangable? On the three blocks that I looked at, the mounting holes are in an "L" pattern but the spacing was different and the pattern was rotated by 180*.

Do you have any detailed pics of the mounts with the engine in and out of a car. If so, that would be a great help.

Thanks,
Marc

I'll have to dig around to find em' but i have at least one extra set of mounts (maybe 2 extra). the mounts are not the same. PM me your address and i should be able to send you a set.

i'll get you some pics soon

-ATL

I don't know anyone with a 3.4 Camaro so I can see how the engine mounts. I was going to buy some engine mounts to use for measurements. The mounting holes on a RWD block are not symetrical but when I look up the P/N for engine mounts, it lists the same for both sides. Are the two sides interchangable? On the three blocks that I looked at, the mounting holes are in an "L" pattern but the spacing was different and the pattern was rotated by 180*.

Do you have any detailed pics of the mounts with the engine in and out of a car. If so, that would be a great help.

Thanks,
Marc

I should be making a visit home next week and I might be able to help with this one if you don't have the needed info by then. Mounting the 3.4 RWD engine mount brackets on the 3500 is one of the things I did out of the interest of putting the motor in my cousins S-10 blazer. You can probably solve the diference in the lengths of the bosses on the 3500 and others by making spacers to even them out unless it is necessary to trim the longer ones down instead. You may even need to make a bracket to fully connect the mount to the engine because I recall one mounting boss missing from one side of the 3500 engine.

Another thing you may want to consider and something I would like to know, is how much the crossmember interferes with the larger aluminum oil pan on pre late generation camaros and fbirds which have the old style crossmember. Perhaps a combinatin of moving the engine back some and trimming the crossmember may be enough t make it work.

[CNCguy]

if there is anyway i can help with that, feel free to ask

- Aaron

I don't know anyone with a 3.4 Camaro so I can see how the engine mounts. I was going to buy some engine mounts to use for measurements. The mounting holes on a RWD block are not symetrical but when I look up the P/N for engine mounts, it lists the same for both sides. Are the two sides interchangable? On the three blocks that I looked at, the mounting holes are in an "L" pattern but the spacing was different and the pattern was rotated by 180*.

Do you have any detailed pics of the mounts with the engine in and out of a car. If so, that would be a great help.

Thanks,
Marc

[StudlyCamaro]

engine mounts to put a LZ engine into a F-body. It just takes time and money.

if there is anyway i can help with that, feel free to ask

- Aaron

edit:

ok nm...i just re-read your post.

you are using a Megasquirt. the MS SnS extra code can understand DIS signals and the crank trigger on the 3.4 -- i know a guy with a turbo'd 3.4L OHV with iron heads (he didnt know bout the swap till after he did his turbo setup) and hes been running MPFI for about a year or two with the megasquirt using all of the 3.4L sensors with no problems.

hes helping me put the megasquirt in my car in fact.

the 3.4L on the F-body has the crank trigger on the balancer. if you get a balancer from a 3.4L RWD F-body engine you can use the crank trigger from the 3.4L.

the wheel in the center of the 3.1/3.4 crank (because from what gm told me they are identical) is for the crank position sensor and not the crank trigger.

ill dig up a pic when i get home tonite.

WTF??? WHy do you insist on spreading incorrect information?

The Crank trigger wheel inside the block is what is need to drive the ignition, and it is very different from the balancer mounted crank trigger.

The internal trigger used for the ignition is a 7x, while the balancer mounted trigger is a 24x.

MPFI engines do not use the balancer mounted trigger or teh cam position sensor, they do however use the 7x crank trigger to send the proper signals to teh ignitio so that it will fire at the correct crank angles.

The 24x trigger is used by the PCM and is supposed to reduce cranking time at start up.

They are both crank position sensors, but trigger different components, and have very different signals.

[94Camaro]

edit:

ok nm...i just re-read your post.

you are using a Megasquirt. the MS SnS extra code can understand DIS signals and the crank trigger on the 3.4 -- i know a guy with a turbo'd 3.4L OHV with iron heads (he didnt know bout the swap till after he did his turbo setup) and hes been running MPFI for about a year or two with the megasquirt using all of the 3.4L sensors with no problems.

hes helping me put the megasquirt in my car in fact.

the 3.4L on the F-body has the crank trigger on the balancer. if you get a balancer from a 3.4L RWD F-body engine you can use the crank trigger from the 3.4L.

the wheel in the center of the 3.1/3.4 crank (because from what gm told me they are identical) is for the crank position sensor and not the crank trigger.

ill dig up a pic when i get home tonite.

[ForcedFirebird]

I want to use a 2.8/3.1 block, I have .030 forged pistons. You answered my question on what I thought was a crank trigger in a 3.4 I was taking apart.
EDIT: Well I guess finding something that can be adapted for the trigger is out of the question. Looks like I'll have to fab something ;p.

ARGGG, no.....

The crank trigger is in the MIDDLE of the block, IIRC between the 2main and #5 rod journals. The sensor will need to be installed in the side of the block, no where near the timing cover.

No the signal can not be manipulated to run the DIS ignition.

Even if you use a FWD crank, whichc BTW I AM, you still need to use the RWD balancer and pulley set-up, whihc is why the store crank trigger will not work.

But now I'm confused, are you using a 3.4 block or a 2.8/3.1 block?

[ForcedFirebird]

That WON'T work.

As I have already stated IN THIS THREAD, the timing chain crank sensor is NOT for the ignition, it is for the PCM, and is suppsed to decrease crank time at start up.

You can NOT just simply use the "3.4 crank trigger" in a 2.8/3.1 block, because these blocks do not have the crank trigger provison that the 3.4 block (and FWD blocks) has.

Do you really think I would have gone through all the trouble to make that external trigger, if I could simply have installed the sensor in the block? My crank (from a 3.1) has the trigger wheel in it, BTW.

What provisions are needed? Now I wish I would have pulled the timing cover off the 3.4 to look for myself. Since I'm installing MeagaSquirt, that RWD 3.4 trigger couln't be use still in my situation(if it sends signal, I can mod the MS to use it)? And could a FWD crank be used in my build to take advantage of the trigger on the store?

[CNCguy]

If I ever get caught up, I plan to work on several new items including a trigger setup for RWDs and engine mounts to put a LZ engine into a F-body. It just takes time and money.

Would the trigger on the store work for a RWD setup?

No, that won't work.

-The RWD balancer uses 4 bolts to attach the crank pulley.
-The trigger wheel would need to have a machined lip, on both sides, where the crank pulley gets centered. One side needs a lip, the other side a reciving groove.
-I don't know exactly how that sensor bracket is attached to the block, but may interfere with A.I.R. pump or other brackets. (I modified my A.I.R. Pump bracket to hold my alternator AND sandwich the sensor bracket to the block.
There are a bunch of accessor drive spacers that would be needed, including water pump spacer.

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 timing cover / water pump is identical. all you gotta do is use the timing cover / crank sensor from the 3.4L RWD engine and you are fine.

KISS philosophy.

-R

<--- 3.4L RWD Camaro w/ 3400 topend. the ONLY ONE I KNOW OF (fbody)

That WON'T work.

As I have already stated IN THIS THREAD, the timing chain crank sensor is NOT for the ignition, it is for the PCM, and is suppsed to decrease crank time at start up.

You can NOT just simply use the "3.4 crank trigger" in a 2.8/3.1 block, because these blocks do not have the crank trigger provison that the 3.4 block (and FWD blocks) has.

Do you really think I would have gone through all the trouble to make that external trigger, if I could simply have installed the sensor in the block? My crank (from a 3.1) has the trigger wheel in it, BTW.

[94Camaro]

EDIT: Boostedrs is building a 3400/3.1 hybrid now for his 3rd gen Camaro, and I'm looking for a good block to do the same . You may be the only one now (probably first) with a hybrid in your f-body, are you N/A or running boost/nos?

yea i know i am on every board and i know who he is.

i am the first in the fbody world, i did this back in 2001 - and i dont know of anyone that has tried it since.

anyway... you wont have as many issues as ive had because your car is MPFI and not SFI. you might want to get custom headers made or go with ones from RKSport (the only company i know that fit the 3x00 heads)

good luck with it.
here are some pics:

http://camaro.adwire.com/modpics/

[ForcedFirebird]

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 timing cover / water pump is identical. all you gotta do is use the timing cover / crank sensor from the 3.4L RWD engine and you are fine.

KISS philosophy.

-R

<--- 3.4L RWD Camaro w/ 3400 topend. the ONLY ONE I KNOW OF (fbody)

Thanks!

EDIT: Boostedrs is building a 3400/3.1 hybrid now for his 3rd gen Camaro, and I'm looking for a good block to do the same . You may be the only one now (probably first) with a hybrid in your f-body, are you N/A or running boost/nos?

[94Camaro]

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 timing cover / water pump is identical. all you gotta do is use the timing cover / crank sensor from the 3.4L RWD engine and you are fine.

KISS philosophy.

-R

<--- 3.4L RWD Camaro w/ 3400 topend. the ONLY ONE I KNOW OF (fbody)