Hoping to build a really nice MPFI Gen-1 V6/60

[sharkey]

Thanks! I really appreciate this response! So just so I understand everything, you have a built up 2.8 with all the current stuff you have listed. It's sitting in a Citation X/11? (Is that what that is?). What do you figure the weight is of your car? If you're running a 15.2, then with a 3.4 in my 2,700 pound car... I should definitely be able to at least run that.

Anyway, the above build is great! How do you like 9.5:1 compression? Do you see any issues with it? What kind of fuel do you have to run? I don't mind using premium, but I'd like to be able to get away with mid grade... for no other reason other than that... the fuel that's in there might sit for a little while.

the car is an 86 z24 cavalier coupe. all those parts listed (along with some other stuff) is in that motor. car weighs in at roughly 2800lbs with me in it (2560 car itself). i used the fiero store forged pistons made by probe industry. they are listed at 9.5:1, however i ended up around 9.2:1. i run 89 octane daily, i can get away with 87 without issues. the car only runs 15.4s at 86mph. the intake is a killer and my mph at the track shows its being choked up high.

a 3.4l is going to have a bunch more torque, but the larger displacment is going to kill top end even more than my 2.8l does. honestly id concentrate on building a torque monster, as high horsepower just isnt going to happen.

[montess408]

hard to make power with parts that don't perform ! everything have its limit's its that poor intake ya got ask sharky about the fiero's poor intake that's where you are lossing all your power !!!!

[ForcedFirebird]

Need we say more...

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=38247

200 is a tough goal for N/A iron headed 660's.

[montess408]

in short i would get a 3.4 block with 10.5:1 a comp cams 270 and port the 3.4 heads and port your fiero intake thats the best you can do with stock parts i think and maybe fuel injector and a good tuning mite get ya a couple more horses

[82-T/A]

the fiero intake is a huge restriction, no 2 ways about it. the plenum is too small and the runners have way to may restrictive bends and small runners. this intake was designed to increase torque (wich it does) however it does it at the expense of horsepower, typically a stock motor wont pull about 5000rpm, the more mods you have the worse it gets. yes you can build an intake too big, but thats were the research and design comes in. there are formulas to design an intake for your application.

as for 200hp, i think you will fall very short. i did a pretty decent build :
-86 2.8l
-probe industried forged 9.5:1 pistons
-beam polished conecting rods, arp rod bolts
-clevite bearings
-mellings high volume oil pump
-comp cams 260h2 cam
-comp valve springs, locks, retainers, and timing set
-SI stainless valves
-86 high output heads, ported
-ported fiero intake
-19lb injectors
-60mm throttle body
-megasquirt II engine managment
-custom headers
-full dual exaust with 2 vibrant 3 way mini cats and 2 flowbaster 60 series mufflers

my car still runs 15.4s with no traction issues. it pulls to about 4500 and falls on its face. i ran a best of 86mph, other cars running around that time were around 90mph or higher. and when i say ported heads, my dad has done race porting for years and spent over 20 hours on the heads alone. id guess i have about 160hp max.

if you really want to keep that intake, id suggest building a 3.4l with 10-10.5:1 compression and if you dont mind working on it, a solid roller cam. id also have some serious porting done on the heads, have the manifolds extrude honed, and at least a 60mm throttle body (i use a jeep 4.0l tb with a custom adaptor). it wont be very fun to drive with a huge solid cam, you can go smaller but you will miss your goal. my only other thoughts are to build it with forged pistons and stainless valves and throw a 100 shot of nitrous on it, that would deffinitly give you your 14 second pass you want.

Thanks! I really appreciate this response! So just so I understand everything, you have a built up 2.8 with all the current stuff you have listed. It's sitting in a Citation X/11? (Is that what that is?). What do you figure the weight is of your car? If you're running a 15.2, then with a 3.4 in my 2,700 pound car... I should definitely be able to at least run that.

I'm not really looking for something exotic. I guess you guys have kind of put me in my place.

I guess what I'd really like to see is, what are the BEST builds that I can do for a 3.4 to make the most power I can, while at the same time still look 100% stock.

When I say stock though, I mean literally stock. I've spray painted my yellow Accel fuel injectors with black engine paint. I've also spray painted my yellow Accel ignition coil with black engine paint too so that it looks factory. I'm not trying to fool anyone, I just want people to see the car for how it was from the factory... but I still want to have fun with it!

Anyway, the above build is great! How do you like 9.5:1 compression? Do you see any issues with it? What kind of fuel do you have to run? I don't mind using premium, but I'd like to be able to get away with mid grade... for no other reason other than that... the fuel that's in there might sit for a little while.



Thanks guys! I really appreciate these responses! I wish I had done this before hand. I've got a 3.2 in it now, but it's just not what I wanted. The cam I put in there is crap, and it has a crappy 8.6:1 compression.

[34blazer]

X2. its hard to get 200hp without changing to the 3x00 topend. this lady has heavily modded her 3.4 but has yet to see 200hp. also, running a huge cam may get you close to your goal, but wouldnt like street driving that much. id opt for a setup thatll give a nice flat torque curve. not peak torque

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/667580/13

redraif.com

[IsaacHayes]

Yup like I said you might get there with cam, headers etc but a big cam won't be very nice for street driving. My 3100 before my intake manifold swap would start pulling like mad at 3,000 rpm. Now it pulls evenly all over. The gen3 heads and intakes defiantly can breath well. A 3500 plenum isn't too flashy in stock form, it's rather bland. You could go with a 3400 and 3500 plenum...

Gonna have to give up the old school look if you wanna go fast without power adders.

[sharkey]

the fiero intake is a huge restriction, no 2 ways about it. the plenum is too small and the runners have way to may restrictive bends and small runners. this intake was designed to increase torque (wich it does) however it does it at the expense of horsepower, typically a stock motor wont pull about 5000rpm, the more mods you have the worse it gets. yes you can build an intake too big, but thats were the research and design comes in. there are formulas to design an intake for your application.

as for 200hp, i think you will fall very short. i did a pretty decent build :
-86 2.8l
-probe industried forged 9.5:1 pistons
-beam polished conecting rods, arp rod bolts
-clevite bearings
-mellings high volume oil pump
-comp cams 260h2 cam
-comp valve springs, locks, retainers, and timing set
-SI stainless valves
-86 high output heads, ported
-ported fiero intake
-19lb injectors
-60mm throttle body
-megasquirt II engine managment
-custom headers
-full dual exaust with 2 vibrant 3 way mini cats and 2 flowbaster 60 series mufflers

my car still runs 15.4s with no traction issues. it pulls to about 4500 and falls on its face. i ran a best of 86mph, other cars running around that time were around 90mph or higher. and when i say ported heads, my dad has done race porting for years and spent over 20 hours on the heads alone. id guess i have about 160hp max.

if you really want to keep that intake, id suggest building a 3.4l with 10-10.5:1 compression and if you dont mind working on it, a solid roller cam. id also have some serious porting done on the heads, have the manifolds extrude honed, and at least a 60mm throttle body (i use a jeep 4.0l tb with a custom adaptor). it wont be very fun to drive with a huge solid cam, you can go smaller but you will miss your goal. my only other thoughts are to build it with forged pistons and stainless valves and throw a 100 shot of nitrous on it, that would deffinitly give you your 14 second pass you want.

[ezrollin]

I did some research and found a guy that flowed a 2.8 intake,stock and ported. Stock was 418 and ported was 432 cfm,of course this could vary depending on how good the porting job. If a 3.4 flows 326 cfm @ 6500 rpms when does the intake become a restriction. Also, you can build a manifold with ports and runners to big which will reduce velocity and performance.

[34blazer]

trueleo flowed the stock intake. thats mainly why i posted the link

[IsaacHayes]

That intake won't keep it looking stock... That's what you see first. And that intake isn't that great either.

It's just not really possible to do what you're asking. Something has to give. Either speed or looks..

A huge ass cam, 3.4 block, super high compression, ported everything, and headers might do it. But it may not drive very nice...

[34blazer]

http://www.trueleo.com/intake1.htm

[ezrollin]

You can get 200 hp out of a 3.4 w / ironheads but I'm not sure if using a stock mpfi intake.Someone flowed a [mpfi] but can't remember the numbers. A 3.4 w / mpfi is rated 160 hp, a set of pocketedported heads will net you about 85 % of the power that's available and you can do it yourself,with a 272 cam you would see 180-185 hp.Don't know if the mpfi would be a restriction,the 200 hp one had a carb.

[34blazer]

i spent $1100 on my ironheads and they didnt even come close to the flow #'s of the gen3 heads (stock). the peak on the intake was 170cfm@.480 up from 130cfm. ill sell you my irons, they are already clearanced for higher lift cams

[82-T/A]

If you really want to keep it looking stock, i bet you could tuck a small T25 turbo in the bay somewhere and run like 8 PSI on the 2.8 with a H260 cam. that could put you close your 200 HP goal easy.

check out this site: http://www.turboz24.com/

he's using a 3.4 iron top end on a 3.1 FWD with boost making 400+ HP.

Thanks for the advice. My first goal really is to keep it stock, and then try to get the most power out of it as I can. Do you have links to some similar builds that people have made using the Gen-1 block?

Like I said, speed isn't overly a huge concern, I just figure the easiest way for me to get there is to do so with 200hp. But like I said, I want to be able to break into the 14s. But... if low 15s is all I can muster, I'm happy with that.