Streetable Cam for 94 Firebird

[Fierasco]

So how much hp gain do you get running 1.6 rockers and a 260H cam on a healthy 3.4? This is considering supporting mods are present (headers, exhaust, and intake).

[IsaacHayes]

The intake swap happened at 180,000. Before that not much mods other than beating on it all the time. I ran a 16.0 with just a muffler and K&N drop in, that was well over 100k cause I got the car with 104 on it.. Most 3100 Beretta's run high 16's or even in the 17's. That run was on original O2 sensor too and I believe original intake gaskets. It was a lot faster afterwards with a tune up I know that.

[ForcedFirebird]

Then maybe I shouldn't have continued upgrading my 200,000+ mile motor... bah it likes it!

200k miles BEFORE upgrades?

[IsaacHayes]

Then maybe I shouldn't have continued upgrading my 200,000+ mile motor... bah it likes it!

[ForcedFirebird]

Well, the cam I am selling IS the same price as if you buy it from comp

Not only that, when you DO decide to buy, give me a shout and I might be able to match or beat prices of competitors on the whole kit and kabootle. I sell Comp's timing set (cam, lifters, single roller, springs, locks retainers etc for $325 plus shipping).

On the subject of the thread, I find it is a common occurrence for a bottom end to go bad even after a stock head rebuild when it has a lot of miles. Many mechanics will NOT warranty work when o top end is rebuilt and the engine has high mileage. My bud with a repair shop WILL not do it at all for engines over 100k miles.

[Firehawk94]

Very, Very good info 60dgrzbelow0 I am saving your photobucket page to my favorites and I am going to use it as a shopping list. You know I partially agree with your opinion on my mileage issue and I definetly have considered the mileage to be too great on this car, but I think Im going to give it a shot, I mean the worse thing that could happen is my keepers could fail on a valve spring or two thereby causing the valves to drop straight down into my cylinders causing cracked and/or pitted pistons along with bent valves and a mandatory rebuild. If that is the case then I do have a spare 3.4L that I previously had in my camaro and Ill have that engine rebuilt, which it needs it anyway. But this is all just theory, who knows i may swap the cam and everything will go fine and well we shall see.

I have commended John on his efforts and his sincerity is much appreciated and to this moment I must say that I am contemplating on purchasing the cam from him. I will let him know.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but...you have some fundamental issues to consider before attempting all these upgrades. Your engine has been essentially purring along for almost a quarter of a million miles now...and here come some very significant changes that will alter and perhaps increase some stress levels while developing more horsepower...perhaps to the point of creating unintended difficulties once the performance mods are added. If you decide to go with the 260H camshaft and bump to the 1.6 rocker arms (stamped? or Roller Tipped flavor?) Then you might have to consider changing over to more robust valve springs, and hardened keepers. etc. that CompCam offers to compliment the new camshaft, lifters and push rods, too.

I'm curious as to how you are going to be able to change the cam bearings with the engine still in the car. If not, then while the engine is out and on the stand and in sync with the swap-in of the new performance cam and timing set (True Roller?), maybe you would consider replacing the main and con-rod bearings, too. If your heads are sealing well with valves in good condition and your oil isn't Midnight Black when you change it, then your rings are probably still in pretty good shape, as well. But it would be a shame to go to all this trouble, only to have the motor knocking two weeks after you've been driving the car and trying out its brand new 'muscles' because the mods then revealed the hidden weaknesses that time and wear pile on all engines, mile for mile.

If you are curious about what the car will sound like with the above suggested set up, have look/listen to this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J_uf9hyv_Y

If you are interested in the CompCam 260H cam and the other supporting CompCam players, please visit my site on Photo Bucket to see the parts, the part numbers, the grind data...and further back on the site are photos of the cam actually being installed along with a Cloyes "True Roller" Timing Set. I've added information about the tools and procedures to help get the job done right. If you go to the root menu there, you'll find a whole list of albums that are related to this project as well.

http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss19/60dgrzbelow0/PERFORMANCECAMSHAFT/?start=20

And finally... I would highly recommend that you save yourself a bundle of money by taking John (Forced Firebird) up on his offer before somebody else reads this post and grabs the goods out from under you. You'll not find anybody on any V6 Forum with as much respect and honest dealings as you are likely to get from him.

[Firehawk94]

i the only thing preventing the auto PCM from being tuneable is that the PCM controls the line pressure for the trans, something we can't find on any other OBD1 PCM that is tuneable.

Wow, and that explains why the 4l60E tranny is so year specific. When I was transmission hunting I found out that (for the 3.4 in the Fbody) a 93 will not work because it is non electronic and the 95 will not work either because the 94 has a 14 pin connector and the 93 has a 13 pin and if I tried to use a 95 tranny the transmission will burn itself up, most likely due to the pcm controlling the line pressure and the wiring being a little different. You know, this has gone a bit off subject, but this is good info, and why in the heck didnt they just leave everything the same between 94 and 95? Do you guys know how hard it is to find a year specific tranny in local junkyards? That was a pain in the ass!

Ok back on subject, my cam dilemma.

[robertisaar]

i can't help with cam selection, i don't know much about the flat-tappet 660s...

but for the dual PCM setup, you basically leave a couple of the sensors attached to the original PCM and the rest get attached to the tuneable PCM, essentially only allowing them to perform certain things, and certain sensors are shared between the two. the only thing preventing the auto PCM from being tuneable is that the PCM controls the line pressure for the trans, something we can't find on any other OBD1 PCM that is tuneable.

[Firehawk94]

on the other hand, we have yet to figure something out other than using the stock PCM for tranny control and another PCM for fuel and spark...

I've heard some things about this. How feasible is this approach and how would this work? I am aware that the 93 fbodies had the 4l60 non E and the 94 and up has the 4l60e tranny. I know i started this thread saying that i would rather steer away from tuning and I still feel this way, but this sounds interesting and Im not asking for an essay, just a brief rundown of this dual PCM setup.


Also, I mentioned a cam in an earlier post, is that the one I am looking for?

[robertisaar]

if it was a manual we could tune it... john has been working on the f-body obd1 conversions, he's about got the 93 auto and manuals done, and we figured out that the 94 and 95 manual trans f-bodies can be tuned using a 16149396 PCM. the autos on the other hand, we have yet to figure something out other than using the stock PCM for tranny control and another PCM for fuel and spark...

you might be able to flash it using a tech 2, but be prepared to shit yourself when you see the price of the thing...

EDIT: i got ninja'd by brad

[bszopi]

it just baffles me that these things cant be tuned, i mean when these things were built they were flashed with a "program" why cant we just perform a reflash per say and tune the parameters to our liking?

It is that easy. The only problem is hacking the code to figure out what needs to be changed (the code isn't documented like all the OBD-1 codes), and then paying for equipment that can flash the PCM (currently, the only thing that has the ability is the TECH-2, which at around $2k+, just doesn't seem worth it... and it will currently only flash to stock).

[Firehawk94]

required, no
suggested, yes

are you running a manual or auto?

I have an automatic. Man, it sucks that I cannot tune with the OBD 1.5 I wish there was a way.......it just baffles me that these things cant be tuned, i mean when these things were built they were flashed with a "program" why cant we just perform a reflash per say and tune the parameters to our liking? I guess Im dreaming now......

But anywho, I am purchasing the LIM and valve cover gaskets tomorrow, but Im going to hold off on the install because I'm wanting to do this cam swap while I'm in there. Ok, Comp has a High energy 264H cam listed for 79-94 173-204ci. engines 2.8-3.4. Is this the cam that I am looking for?

[geoffinbc]

You may want to look into a regrind on your stock core so you keep the cam trigger for the SFI. Otherwise your car will revert to MPFI and you will get a CEL all the time. If it were me I would get a regrind, a set of COMP lifters, COMP 1.6:1 Magnum Rockers (which you can order with a push rod set) and a COMP Timing Set slap it all in and your done.

[ForcedFirebird]

Well seeing I have sold several of the 260h cams in the past several months, and ALL of the cars are running perfectly fine without a tune, I will say 100% that your car will be fine with it

I could probably even dig up a few videos of said cars, one even had a nice port job on the heads/intakes, zero problems, zero codes set.

You have to remember the 3.4 guys have been using this cam for quite some time without the ability to tune the OBD 1.5.