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  • TBI will not prime fuel pump

    Hello, first timer here. I'm about at the end of my rope here with my truck. It's an 87 S10 blazer with the 2.8 TBI. It has served me well for the last 6 years, with no issues up till the last year. About a year ago, I was cleaning it and decided to clean under the hood. I sprayed it down, degreased it, and so forth. Well since then the fuel pump prime circuit has never worked. I put up with it for the last year, thinking it's a computer issue.

    In August, I'm driving it to school and twice in one day it stops running on me. I can restart it later, but I still decide to park it till I can work on it.

    About a month ago, I start messing with it finally. It's a long story, I'll give you the quick version. I replaced the ignition module, coil, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and checked all the wiring. The ground to the fuel tank was loose, but I resoldered that. I also replaced the computer with a reman... TWICE. The first one didn't help the prime issue. It also died on me up the street. The second replacement went up in smoke... literally. The 3rd computer (4th counting original, I bought this used because I suspected the PROM chip) is still kicking, but it doesn't prime still. So now I've got a running truck, but it doesn't prime still. I'm exactly where I was a year ago.

    Here's what I'm looking at. There is a tan wire that goes to the fuel pump. That circuit is good, that's been verified. There are three ways of powering that wire. 1) a jumper wire under the hood 2) a relay, which is turned on by the computer (which is my main problem, it never turns on), and 3) the oil pressure switch (the only thing turning my fuel pump on, it starts once I get oil pressure). So basically, my main culprit is that my fuel pump relay isn't being turned on by the computer. I've checked that wire, it gets 12 volts when I check it w/o the relay attached, but what's weird is once the relay is plugged in the relay drops to under 1 volt. I've checked all the connections over and over.

    I've been told to check the wiring, which makes perfect sense, but what boggles my mind is that my fuel pump prime DID work TWICE! Both times were with the reman computer, and the old PROM. The prime would work in both cases a couple starts after I hook the computer up, then I'd go to drive it the next day and it wouldn't prime anymore. I do get a code 54 when I crank for a while, I do know that it's for low fuel pump voltage (duh).

    I HOPE someone on here has some kind of answer for me. I've been over the Mitchell wiring diagram several times, asked 3 mechanics, and even has a former GM engineer hook it up to a machine of his. I can't seem to catch a break with this. I really want to get this back the way it was, the engine itself is a recent GM crate engine. I would like to keep it with that engine, but if I can't get it fixed, I'll have to resort to a carbed 350 which I don't have the time, money, or motivation for right now.

    Thanks in advance! Sorry for the novel, but this is the short version!
    Last edited by blazinred87; 12-18-2007, 01:55 AM.

  • #2
    Ok here is the diagram for your fuel pump



    If you look at the diagram you need 3 things for the relay to make the pump work. You need 12V from the ECM to power the solenoid in the relay. You also need a ground for this solenoid. That is one half. In order to get 12V to the pump you of course need 12V at the switch side of the relay.

    Since you put a crate engine in your truck my first suspicion is the ground for the relay solenoid. Since this is an engine ground it would have been removed during the swap. So verify continuity from the relay terminal C to the engine block using a multimeter on the ohm setting. Next verify 12 V at pin A on the relay while a helper turns the key to the run position. Also verify it in the START position. You also will have a constant 12V at pin C. Pin D should get 12V any time pin A gets 12V.

    Report back and if it is not solved there is more to go after.
    1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
    1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
    Because... I am, CANADIAN

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    • #3
      What the heck? I typed out a whole response the other day and it's gone?


      Anyways, the short version. Pins B,C, and D are good, that's for sure. The only issue I have is with Pin A. If I check the voltage without the relay plugged in, it shows as 12v. The second I put a load on the circuit (plug in the relay), the voltage drops to 0v, at the relay end of the wire, and coming out of the computer. So for some reason, once there is a load, the computer drops the voltage? Just doesn't make sense.

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      • #4
        We changed our server plan and lost the newest posts when they did it. Should be good to go for a while now
        Ben
        60DegreeV6.com
        WOT-Tech.com

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        • #5
          If you are getting 0V where is the other lead of the multimeter connected to?
          1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
          1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
          Because... I am, CANADIAN

          Comment


          • #6
            The pos wire of the DVOM is to the wire I'm testing, and the black is to the chassis ground.

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            • #7
              So pin A goes to 0V with the relay installed. What is the resistance across the relay pins A and C? Compare it to a new one or the A/C relay beside it if you have one
              1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
              1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
              Because... I am, CANADIAN

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, the voltage drops to 0v not only from the relay, but if I disassemble the plug, and use a test light on that green/white just the slight resistance of the test light drops the wire to 0v! I've already done 3 relays, + the A/C relay, so that's good.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe the circuit is shorting to another circuit. Sometimes the wiring on older vehicles combine with each other, esspecially in hot locations...I'd check the cooresponding harness.
                  Lorenzo
                  '11 DODGE Challenger R/ T Classic 57M6 Green with Envy "Giant Green Squid"
                  '92 PONTIAC Grand Prix SE 34TDCM5 "Red Lobster"

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                  • #10
                    Yup it sounds you've got a wire problem but I am willing to bet it is a loose connection or only a partial path to ground. If you had a very low resistance path to ground you would get a dead short all the time. You should uncover the wire and trace it back through the firewall. You may consider disconnecting the pin on the ecm and running a test wire outside the truck and hook it to the relay and perform the test again.

                    I just found a weak factory splice on my Trooper that was only letting 3V through to the wiper motor and pump in the rear hatch. I had to trace the wires back, find the splice and as soon as I un taped it the splice fell apart in my hands.
                    1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
                    1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
                    Because... I am, CANADIAN

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Seems like the ECM is shutting off the fuel pump relay drive whenever there is a load on it. In addition to the prime feature, this should stay at +12V whenever the engine is running. This is a "high-side" output, meaning it supplies +battery voltage instead of supplying a ground. It is more involved internally for a computer to do this than it is for it to provide a ground.
                      You've checked all the usual stuff like a shorted relay and bad ground. The ECM switches power coming from the IGN input to the fuel pump relay drive wire when it wants to operate the relay. If there is a weak supply going into the IGN input it could cause the ECM to be unable to maintain the fuel pump drive.
                      Make sure the pink/blk and both orange wires going into the ECM for ignition and battery+ maintain full voltage when the fuel pump relay is supposed to be active.
                      The fact that you have used several ECM's and all have given same symptom points to the ECM not being the root cause.
                      I'm just "surmising" here as I have not fought this exact problem before.
                      Thanks,
                      David
                      David Allen - Northport, AL
                      1986 Century T-Type, Iron Head 3.1 MPFI Turbo-Intercooled
                      1988 Olds Ciara XC, GenII 2.8 MPFI Turbo-Intercooled
                      1972 Chevy Nova, 305 Small Block V8 EFI
                      1984 Century Olympia, 3.8SFI Turbo, over 400 HP
                      http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1
                      http://www.cardomain.com/id/turbokinetic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Makes sense.

                        As far as the power wires going into the computer, mainly thing pink/black wire, there is no issues with that. 12v whenever it's supposed to be, plus, that's the wire that supplies 12v to the oil pressure switch which is the only reason my truck is running now.

                        So can I cut and splice the green/black wire out of the ECM? I'll run a test wire for sure then, as long as it's okay to splice. I know some wires are set for a specific resistance, but I imagine not this one.

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                        • #13
                          It's OK to splice it. AFAIK there are no resistance wires in the EFI vehicles. That was mainly coil-ballast resistor wire in the old points distributors.
                          I guess you actually tested the pink/black at the ecm with ecm and all other things connected? The factory splice where it branches to go to the ECM, oil pressure switch, and other parts could be damaged allowing normal voltage to the switch, but having a voltage drop on the branch going to the ECM?
                          David Allen - Northport, AL
                          1986 Century T-Type, Iron Head 3.1 MPFI Turbo-Intercooled
                          1988 Olds Ciara XC, GenII 2.8 MPFI Turbo-Intercooled
                          1972 Chevy Nova, 305 Small Block V8 EFI
                          1984 Century Olympia, 3.8SFI Turbo, over 400 HP
                          http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1
                          http://www.cardomain.com/id/turbokinetic

                          Comment

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