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262's 85 Fiero SE LX9 F23 swap thread lots of pics

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  • On the topic reply issue, it looks like if you go to edit your settings, and go-to the notifications settings, you should be able to make it work. Check the Subscribe to Topics, and then change way you receive notifications (on, on daily, or on weekly).
    -Brad-
    89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
    sigpic
    Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

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    • well, unfortunately, I don't have much to report, I got underway for a bit and wasn't able to get much progress done... here's what I have for now.

      I'm also converting the car to DBW and am going to use an LS4 throttle body.




      I re plumbed the oil drain into the pan, this time cutting in behind the starter.







      it fits nice and tight, and should make install and removal of the turbo easier.

      I drew up my own header flanges. everything I've put my hands on was way off. here's the new flange, it should be almost exact to the port.



      now onto the next step, the pipework to the turbo, the plan is for a pair of short log manifolds, to a single turbo.the log is tapered from 1-1/2 schedule 10 pipe, to 2" schedule 10 over about 12" of length.






      https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/t...pes-d_283.html

      according to this, over about 12"(approximate length of the log) of pipe, and a temperature difference of around 1300F from installed state to what is probably well over max operating temperature yields an expansion of about 0.2" similar math for the head, assuming 142F rise (due to coolant) results in an expansion of 0.022", a difference in expansion of .178"

      using the difference in temperature for the head, and the expansion of the stainless gives us an expansion of.019 for the flange, a difference of .003 between the head and flange, if I were a betting man, I would say that the flange is probably slightly hotter than the head, due to the lower thermal conductivity of stainless compared to aluminum, and the lack of cooling medium.

      knowing this, across the entire head, I have a difference of about .18" between the log and the flange. that I need to make up. but the force on the runners will be applied bidirectionally, with about .126" of expansion between the ports further apart, and about .054 between the ports close together.

      All of this is assuming steady state temperature, I imagine transient dT's would be lower.

      0.0195" head

      0.0167" flange
      0.01169" wide
      0.00501" narrow

      0.156" pipe
      0.098" wide
      0.042" narrow


      0.071" flange hot
      0.0497" wide
      0.0213" narrow

      difference warm
      0.0864 wide
      0.0369 narrow

      divergence warm
      3.62 degrees wide
      1.57 degrees narrow

      difference hot
      0.0483" wide
      0.0217" narrow

      divergence hot
      2.049 degrees wide
      0.92 degrees narrow


      on the front bank, most of the expansion can be taken up by the bend from the first port. as it should be relatively free to expand towards front passenger side of the engine compartment, on the rear bank, that expansion has to be taken between the ports, as both ports will discharge at almost right angles to the pipe. short of building a 3-1 header style manifold, I don't think there's much I can do there, slotting the boltholes at the ends of the flange would allow the pipe to move the flange to a small degree, but it will also be forced counter to that by it's lesser expansion, and would have to also fight the force applied by the tension of the bolts also resisting flange movement. I'm going to keep looking at them from an engineering standpoint, but I think what I have so far should perform adequately.
      Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

      I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

      Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

      Comment




      • first ever attempts at welding stainless steel. I can tell already I need lots of practice. I think my travel speed is too slow, and I probably should have spent more time prepping the surfaces, I'm planning on picking up some stainless wire wheels tomorrow, and I'll use them to brush the weld areas, and then I'll wipe them, as well as the filler, with acetone prior to welding. I'm also going to use solarflux on the back of the weld to prevent pickling the backsides.
        Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

        I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

        Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

        Comment


        • a little less stickout, a litttle more prep, a little more speed, and a little less current netted this:



          much better, but I still need more practice.
          Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

          I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

          Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

          Comment


          • Practice helps, alot!



            old on the left, new on the right. still a bit hot, but way better!



            One log and runner are assembled, unfortunately, I can't really make any more progress until I get the new flanges made. tomorrow, when I get off work I plan to triple check all of my measurements and find someone to cut them ASAP. my fabrication plan is to tack weld the 45's to the flange, and then set the log on top and trim both until I have a proper fit, then weld everything up.

            Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

            I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

            Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

            Comment


            • I missed alot or all of this...but damn! I gotta practice welding again and work on some headers. I never did make the flange/adapter to snap the header fabrication pieces to the head. Those bends look familiar. I think they are the same ones Forced_Firebird (I think thats his name on here as well?) uses for the BMW turbo manifolds. Too much math for me. Expanding an 1/8" between the furthest exhaust ports would be neat to watch on a timelapse. Also, the topic reply should be default IMO. Im feeling lucky, lets see what this new software has under the hood
              Ben
              60DegreeV6.com
              WOT-Tech.com

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SappySE107 View Post
                I missed alot or all of this...but damn! I gotta practice welding again and work on some headers. I never did make the flange/adapter to snap the header fabrication pieces to the head. Those bends look familiar. I think they are the same ones Forced_Firebird (I think thats his name on here as well?) uses for the BMW turbo manifolds. Too much math for me. Expanding an 1/8" between the furthest exhaust ports would be neat to watch on a timelapse. Also, the topic reply should be default IMO. Im feeling lucky, lets see what this new software has under the hood
                the bends are "weld els" they're pretty popular for turbo manifolds. I believe the math, after welding this stuff up, the difference in expansion between the head and the flange isn't as huge thankfully. it would make it almost impossible to work with.

                I was hoping to have this heap back on the road by the end of the year, but my work schedule is going to prevent that.

                in other news. the other log is welded up, not I just need flanges so I can continue.
                Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                Comment


                • Those are the ones! Topic reply works This was an off year for me, as far as getting anything done that I wanted to do at the beginning of the year. Ill going to need your help with designing a valve cover spacer. I can do all the measurements, but I can't make it a cad file. .xfd? XDF is tuning, and its similar to that I think...I gotta get my head back into this stuff.
                  Ben
                  60DegreeV6.com
                  WOT-Tech.com

                  Comment


                  • Dwg, dwf, dxf... Most likely dxf.
                    -Brad-
                    89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
                    sigpic
                    Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SappySE107 View Post
                      Those are the ones! Topic reply works This was an off year for me, as far as getting anything done that I wanted to do at the beginning of the year. Ill going to need your help with designing a valve cover spacer. I can do all the measurements, but I can't make it a cad file. .xfd? XDF is tuning, and its similar to that I think...I gotta get my head back into this stuff.
                      like Bszopi said, DWG, DWF, DXF. most of my stuff end up being STP or STEP files, I draw them all using OnShape, nice thing is that I can draw it using the computing power of the cloud, and not bog down my crumby laptop, the downside is that I can't take it anywhere that doesn't have internet...

                      I can draw one up, shouldn't be too hard, the biggest issue will be measurements, because almost nothing is square, but I have a few methods that work. for the exhaust flange I made a grid matrix and used the deck surface as a reference line, it worked well, the 3d print of my flange proved the port dimensions, but unfortunately, I somehow messed up the bolt hole positions relative to the ports. right now, the ports are almost an exact match to the heads, I'm planning on upsizing them by 5% so that the flange will have no overlap of the port. I'll post the file for the drawing after it's been verified for anyone to use.
                      Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                      I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                      Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                      Comment


                      • Not much going on ATM, I drew up this adapter to adapt the 09 impala gas pedal to the Fiero, I'll have it 3D printed to test fit, and then make adjustments from there. once it's "done" I'll have it cut out of metal.



                        I did a bit more practice running beads last night, I think I'm starting to get the hang of it, I think one of my biggest problems with producing nice beads earlier, was that the torch was too far from the material, resulting in the torch melting the filler, not the puddle, I tightened the gap, and was more careful about filler addition, and the result was the top bead in this picture:



                        I did several like it, and think that I'm getting to the point where I can observe the problems or poor technique better, and make corrections on the fly. I think all this stainless practice will make a huge difference in all of my weld quality, not just stainless. it seems some of the other materials are more forgiving they're appearance doesn't change as much with poor technique, whereas stainless changes alot!
                        Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                        I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                        Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                        Comment


                        • I did a little junkyard digging today and scored a couple of small wins.

                          a new UIM and a/c compressor.



                          and a few more 3500 injectors, I'm going to decap them and send them to Derr Injector services for cleaning and flow testing, I have 16 of them, so I'll have them flowed and I'll take the best 6 matching and use them.

                          I also did a little work on the "coolant tree". Normally there's a pipe that goes over the valve cover to the back side of the engine to act as a return path from the heater core. I decided that I am going to plumb my heater return into the passenger side coolant tube running under the car, and eliminate one of the pipes under the car. it is necessary to keep the tree in place though, because it receives the recirculation line to prevent dead heading the water pump.

                          I started by removing the pipe





                          then welded it up and painted it.





                          The welds are a little nasty, I think there was still some antifreeze residue in there that kept trying to gas off.

                          I cut the neck out of the new intake, and have begun fitting up the new one, it's a bit bigger, and will better accommodate my 76mm LS4 throttle.







                          I still need to finish it up, but it's coming along nicely.
                          Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                          I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                          Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                          Comment


                          • this is my current alternator and tensioner bracket. it uses an LT1 F-body tensioner, and an Astro van alternator. it also requires an idler at the top bolt hole the holds the bracket to the head. I made it a few years ago, it's a bit bulky, and holds the alternator pretty far from the block, it works, but I'm not too happy with the execution, the welds are shit...





                            I'd prefer the alternator hug the block, but then I have to find a new tensioner. the one pictured appeared to be the ticket, until I started lining the belt up and realized it would need an additional idler to work, and there isn't really room.



                            I found a fairly compact tensioner, that pulls the opposite direction. it has a ribbed pulley that I swapped for a smooth pulley, I'm going to make a mount to hold it in between the a/c compressor and the block, the mount will bolt in using the A/C compressor bolts, which acutally works out well, the A/C compressor requires a spacer between itself and the block, as the original application for the engine had an anti rotation mount sandwiched there, so now the space will be used for something.



                            mounting the tensioner there will also eliminate an idler pulley as well, which did require the mount boss on the timing cover to be ground off.



                            I'm done for tonight, but I hope to have this mostly done tomorrow as long as it's above freezing...
                            Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                            I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                            Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                            Comment


                            • so... I lied I wasn't done...

                              I did a little CAD(Cardboard Aided Design) work:



                              then to the plasma and drill press:



                              and now I have a finished mounting flange for the tensioner



                              I need to smooth it out a bit, but I think it turned out pretty good, I'm planning to brace it in three places to ensure a solid foundation.
                              Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                              I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                              Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                              Comment


                              • I tacked it together about 10 times, before finally settling on this:



                                the belt will be routed as such, maintaining the tensioner on the slack side of the belt. with the tensioner fully retracted, the belt still has clearance, between the tensioner and waterpump.



                                I used the stock engine lift bracket as a guide, and cut the foundation for the alternator mount to match the shape, except extended lower so that the alternator will have something to mount to.



                                My goal is to tuck the alternator as close to the block as possible, the back is going to get kinda close to the exhaust, so I'm going to make a thin heat shield to protect it as best as possible.



                                what I have left, I need to add gussets to the tensioner bracket, I dont' see any flex as is right now, but I don't want to revisit it later because I got lazy. and obviously, I need to mount the alternator still, and the last thing, find a belt, I hope that goes easier than last time... lol.
                                Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

                                I get bummed out every time I type "titties" in the search bar and nothing pops up....

                                Built not bought, because bolt-ons don't...

                                Comment

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