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262's 85 Fiero SE LX9 F23 swap thread lots of pics

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  • The_Raven
    replied
    I've thought about getting that DBWX2 box, it would just be nice if there was a more universal option, like other ECUs work with.

    I'll be interested in seeing updates to it's functionality.
    Last edited by The_Raven; 08-02-2020, 11:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied

    well, it popped off today! I have lots of issues to sort out still, for some reason the DBWX2 and the MS3 pro keep loosing coms, and the only time I could get it to do something that seemed like a reasonable idle, was when it was so pig rich it was billowing black smoke, otherwise as soon as it starts it immediately jumps to 2500-3000 RPM. I'm going to start by troubleshooting the can bus circuit between the MS3 and the DBWX2, as I don't have a reason to believe there's a vacuum leak that big anywhere, and the default position for the TB is fairly far open, so that could be part of the problem. Hopefully I can figure out whats going on with the can bus and that yields some kind of progress.

    Anyways, here's a video of the first start.

    https://youtu.be/PO938D0WGmg

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    Work has been kicking my ass, I really want to start the engine before I go back out to sea, but I'm not going to hold my breath on it, and if it doesn't start before I go, it might be early next year before I can get back on it... I plan to take some odds and ends out to sea with me so I can take a shitload of measurements and when I get back, punch them into a CAD program.

    Today, I knocked out a bunch of stuff on the list, The alternator charge wire is made and installed, the axles are back in the car, and the transmission is filled. For those of you that don't know, the F23 transmission's oil fill is tiny and very easy to overflow... I also primed the oil system with a pump sprayer through the turbo oil feed, no leaks were observed. I also made up the rest of the vacuum and boost lines, as well as the heater core supply line. I was going to wire up the fuel pump connector, but I couldn't find the other half of it, until I started typing this... I'm hoping tuesday I can get the thermostat outlet hose figured out, and start filling the cooling system, but the way work has been, I'm not sure it will happen.

    The list looks short, but I'm sure I'll find a dozen or more things to add to it before it starts.


    To start the car:

    fix the flex fuel sender wires (they're a bit too short...)
    Wire the other half of the fuel pump connector
    set the ignition timing
    add chafing protection to the wiring near the battery
    some kind of a base tune...

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  • ericjon262
    replied
    Originally posted by bszopi View Post
    This makes me want to post on update of my project. Let me go find a pick from 7 years ago when I parked it in the garage...

    Always enjoy seeing all of the progress on this. I can't wait until you get a chance to fire it up!
    LOL! I know the feeling!




    ______________________________

    bleh! Last week, I was at work for about 110 hours, so as you can imagine, I haven't had much time at all to get anything done.

    Today was a busy day, The intake is bolted down "permanently" as is the alternator, idlers, and the belt is installed. additionally, I put the 3# wastegate spring in, and got the ports clocked the way I want them. I was going to make and install all of the boost/vacuum lines, but I somehow never ordered the right fittings... DOH. They're on order now, and should be here Tuesday.

    I needed a place to install my main power ground on the engine, and had been trying to some up with something acceptable for a while, with no real luck, then it hit me, use a longer bolt for the top idler, then use the overextended threads to install the ground on.




    I also got the oil feed line plumbed and connected, the harness re-installed, and some other odds and ends sorted.



    the last thing I did was re-evaluate "the list"

    To start the car:

    heater/coolant hoses made/installed.
    boost and vac lines (awaiting fittings)
    Alternator charge wire
    fix the flex fuel sender wires (they're a bit too short...)
    Wire the other half of the fuel pump connector
    install the axles
    fill the transmission
    prime the oiling system
    set the ignition timing
    add chafing protection to the wiring near the battery
    wire in the O2 sensor LED


    To drive the car:
    new front right brake line/bleed brakes
    bleed the clutch
    finish the roof install
    install a new windshield
    reinstall the windshield wipers
    install the decklid
    install the front tub
    install the upper front fender bolts
    install the rear wheelwell liners
    opcheck all of the lights

    Leave a comment:


  • bszopi
    replied
    This makes me want to post on update of my project. Let me go find a pick from 7 years ago when I parked it in the garage...

    Always enjoy seeing all of the progress on this. I can't wait until you get a chance to fire it up!

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    I did a bunch of work today, The fuel sending unit and the tank are back in, the downpipe and wastegate dump are fully welded and the engine is back in the car! I was super happy to find that mu charge pipe fits, I was worried it would hit the firewall.

    I decided against a "screamer pipe" and integrated the wastegate dump into the downpipe, the length of pipe will allow for expansion in an arc, instead of linearly, which should reduce strain on the welds. I haven't decided whether or not I'll split the downpipe to both sides of the car, or just run it to one side with a single tailpipe.



    The downpipe and wastegate dump clears everything just fine!



    as does the charge pipe!



    Here's how I left the car, I have a ton of work to do still, but I might just crank it before the end of the month!

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    all that's left for the charge pipe is to put beads on the end. I really suck at welding aluminum, If I did more of it, I'd probably get better...



    I also worked on the wastegate dump pipe, I need to make one more piece, then finish weld it.





    here's a shot of the part of the fuel sender I cut off. you can see it's super tiny...

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    Fuel system parts came in, so I got to work on it, the new sender was almost a perfect match compared to stock... except mirriored... DOH! I was hoping to just bolt it to the stock resistor housing, but it wouldn't be that easy. instead, I bent the travel stops on the stock sender 180 degrees, and tacked the new sender's travel stops to the old sender. then bent the new float to the proper position. A possible important not that I had never noticed about the stock fiero sending unit, is that the pressure line at the pump hookup is necked down to probably 5/16" or 1/4", way smaller than the rest of the fuel line. I cut this off, and attached the new PTFE discharge hose where the tube was a full 3/8".







    All I'm waiting on now is a wire bulkhead fitting to pass the wires though, now there won't be any splices in the tank.

    Other than that, I got a good start on the charge pipe, I have enough material to make another, and I'm not too happy with how the welds turned out, so I might just redo it (I have about 20 minutes in this one) to finish it, I'll have to add the maf sensor mount, and the BOV fitting.





    I also went ahead and ordered a 3 PSI wastegate spring with the order for the wastegate pipes, I have an EBC that I'll use to turn the wick up once I get things a bit more dialed in.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    I knocked out a bunch of the little stuff on the list, and some of the things that had me a bit frustrated as well.

    one of the big (ish) items I was able to accomplish was getting a dipstick fitted to the engine, which actually worked out to be much easier than I expected.

    the 3900 dipstick tube fits the earlier engines, but the tube is longer, thankfully, the 3900 dipstick is longer by the same amount, and the 3900 dipstick sticks out of the end of the tube by the same amount as the early dipstick sticks out of the early tube. Therefore, if you install the 3900 dipstick and tube in a earlier engine, it should fit and read exactly as the early dipstick and tube.

    As an added bonus, the arrangement of the 3900 tube puts the tube further away from the head, so it will probably clear most header flanges. it touches my 1/2" flanges, but I suspect it would clear 3/8" it's also in a position that clears my coils! all around, epic win!



    In other news, I marked TDC on the balancer and timing cover, once I have the engine back in the car, I'll turn it over and shoot it with a timing light to determine the 24x wheel sensor offset so that anyone else doing a similar swap with a MS3 based ecu can use the internal wheel easier.

    I also got the plenum port matched to the lower, painted the alternator and tensioner brackets, and tightened the engine mount bolts up. hopefully tomorrow when I get off work my level sender and fuel pump will be here and I can install them, if that goes smoothly, I might start on the charge pipe and getting the engine back in the car.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    I got my fluke out and checked the resistance of the level sender... 50+Megaohm across the board... well, that won't tell me much will it... Since I still refuse to buy stuff from the fiero store, I really don't have any options but to either get another used sender and hope to get better results, or to make something, so I ordered this

    https://www.amazon.com/Equus-9982-Fu...ustomerReviews

    it's a universal 0-90 ohm sensor, I'll take it apart (carefully) and install in on the stock pickup, I think it should be a simple enough thing to fabricate.

    I also ordered a new fuel pump, while it's not hard to pull the tank and replace the pump, I don't want to do it unless I have to, and since it's out I'll do it now and know it's good for the long haul.

    here's the pump, I've always heard good things about them, and I've seen independent testing that shows comparable or better performance than Walbro pumps

    https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-20761...-tbi-2-8l.html

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    I dropped the fuel tank to get at the fuel lines, I figured getting the old gas out was probably a good idea, there was way more in there than I expected, and it was nasty. I think to be safe, I'm going to go ahead and toss a new pump in, and a new gauge sender if I can find one.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    Bleh... what a shit weekend...

    I pulled the engine, installed the flywheel and clutch, and tacked together a respectable downpipe. Fun fact, the horrible freight belt sanders aren't half bad, in fact, I wish I had bought one 10 years ago, they make squaring up joints so much easier... One day, I'll get or build a nicer one.

    Call me a crazy asshole, but that's what the exhaust will be for now. I may put another pair of 90's on it so it exits under one of the bumper cutouts, but for now, I ain't worried about it.



    I haven't decided whether or not to divorce the wastegate dump from the rest of the exhaust or not yet. if I divorce it, it will follow the downpipe until it's near the axles.





    here's the new heater core line, routing in front of the engine avoids more hot or moving parts than around the rear of the engine.





    boring picture... I mounted the fuel filter. Riv-nuts are awesome!



    I made a list... it's longer than I hoped...

    To start...

    Fuel lines
    turbo oil lines
    oil+filter
    O2 sensor(finish wiring and install bung)
    MAF bung
    Charge piping
    Fully weld the downpipe
    Waste gate dump
    BOV install
    other end of heater core supply line
    driver's side rear cradle bolt...
    Paint the alternator and belt tensioner brackets,
    Terminate the starter trigger wire.
    waterpump and thermostat hoses
    install a thermostat...
    Find TDC/Mark on the balancer.
    Torque motor mount bolts
    add transmissino fluid
    Make a stock dipstick work, or fabricate something that will work.
    Port the plenum to match the lower intake.

    Hopefully I can get some of the bigger items on this list done this week, it would be awesome to start this POS before I go back out to sea.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    The new MS3 ended up leaving Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning... I was surprised when it arrived this morning while i was at work. I can send it back, but I'm going to hang onto it, eventually, I'll have another project I can use it on, like the R07 I'm slowly amassing parts for...

    I got my new PTFE fuel line in, and started assembling lines. I have the feed line from the filter done, and the return line from the regulator halfway done.

    I decided I'm going to tap the heater supply on the lower intake, and install a 1/2" NPT to -10 AN fitting , then route the heater supply around the front of the engine instead of behind and around, it should make for a much easier installation, and be WAY faster to fabricate. Assuming I get out of work at a reasonable hour tomorrow, I might pull the engine back out and get the cradle and mounts painted, as well as the flywheel and clutch installed, then Friday and into the weekend, I'll reinstall it and really start getting things rolling. Tomorrow, I'm going to generate a list of things I need to accomplish, and hopefully by the end of the weekend, 90+% is done, but we'll see.

    Leave a comment:


  • ericjon262
    replied
    Originally posted by manbearpig View Post
    Hmm, well if it's using pin 9, then you would need a full port emulator and not just a USB to RS232 adapter, which is what the cheap ones are. Could explain why it wasn't working.
    it wasn't working due to the B+ fuse being blown like mentioned in my above post. The above pictured dongle connects to a Keyspan serial to USB adapter, which emulates a com port.

    Leave a comment:


  • manbearpig
    replied
    Hmm, well if it's using pin 9, then you would need a full port emulator and not just a USB to RS232 adapter, which is what the cheap ones are. Could explain why it wasn't working.

    Leave a comment:

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