3500 Swap Finally Underway, a few questions

[pocket-rocket]

took my "new" getrag out of its crate

You suck. Where did you find one and what did you pay?

[jmgtp]

I'll get the article updated and punish Ben for being wrong.

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haha, ok well I just wanted to be very sure I had done it correctly and when the article disagreed with my logic I had to question it.

I found a pic of a 3100 on google and saw where the tensioner mounted, which is different than the 3500. The 3500 mounts to the alternator bracket and the 3100 to the timing cover. Since the 3100 alternator bracket that I am using doesn't have the provisions to mount the tensioner I opted to use the timing cover location - the 3500 timing cover even has the dimple for the pin on the back of the tensioner that prevents the mounted part from rotating. I did have to swap pulleys though to one that was not ribbed since the timing cover location means the belts smooth side will ride on the tensioner pulley. This was no problem since the 3500 comes with a few idler pulleys that I am not using (the idlers is how it gets around not having a p/s pump pulley).

The below is my setup, you can also see the TCE external crank trigger mounted in front of a 3400 harmonic balancer. It's coming along. I got the car in position to pull the motor and took my "new" getrag out of its crate. Next steps are draining the fluids from the old engine, disconnecting wiring & plumbing and removing the hood.

I also forgot about my leaky p/s rack. It needs new seals and that is something I have never done. Remans are out of the questions since it seems that no matter what ratio you buy they give you a 3:1 rack for your grandma. I currently am using the close ratio rack from a TGP but as stated, its leaking bad. I'll be pulling the rack after the engine is out since it will be so easy to do then.

[pocket-rocket]

I'll get the article updated and punish Ben for being wrong.

Droid via Tapatalk

Make him stay home in the snow for a couple more weeks, lol.

[bszopi]

I'll get the article updated and punish Ben for being wrong.

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[pocket-rocket]

Since the front and rear head are exactly the same, yes, you are correct (since one head turns 180 degrees from the other). As for pulling the valve cover and checking pushrods, it sure beats pulling heads and changing valves and at least the valve cover gasket is rubber and can be reused

[jmgtp]

I removed my rocker covers and compared what I had done to what Ben has posted.
I don't agree with what Ben has posted for cylinder #4. Here is what he says:

"Pushrods are valve specific on all Gen 2 and newer pushrod motors. The following are when you are standing in front of the radiator, looking at the engine.

In a FWD configuration the order for the rear head from left to right is Exhaust, Intake, Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust. The front head from left to right is Exhaust, Intake, Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust."

I don't agree with the two I highlighted in red, they look to be the opposite of the above. This should be for cylinder #4 or the middle cylinder closest to the radiator in a fwd car. I believe the correct order should in fact be E,I,I,E,I,E. Am I correct?
Look at this pic and you can see why I think I am correct:

[bszopi]

I would think it would.

[jmgtp]

Thanks for the link and the pic. After reviewing the link I am questions what I did on cylinder #4. I don't want to take any chances so I'm going to pull the valve covers, loosen the rockers and check which pushrods are installed - only way to be certain. Kicking myself that I have to redo this but certainly better safe than sorry and it shouldn't take long.

The pic is an LX9 but my issue is that I am using a 3100 alternator bracket on my LX9. I'm assuming that the tensioner will use the same position though.

[bszopi]

Also, for reference: http://60degreev6.com/forum/content....shrod-Location

And going by the following...



Looks like the tensioner would go on the upper left bolt.

[pocket-rocket]

Torque rockers down and yes, you are good to go- no lash adjustments needed. As far as the rockers to valves, just look inside each intake passage. I don't know the order by memory, but just look in the intake passage on the head and see which way it turns (left or right) and it will show you which pushrod goes to an intake valve As for the tensioner and alternator bracket, I've no clue.

EDIT: Actually, thank Ben for this. He gave me a bunch of parts he didn't want (DOHC blocks, DOHC heads, DOHC intakes, pushrod heads, pushrod intakes), so I ran out to the garage and grabbed a head to check pushrod order. It should go:

Back of engine:
E I E I I E Flywheel
E I I E I E End
Front of Engine

... which looks just like what you have

[jmgtp]

I used a small 3 jaw to remove the 3500 balancer and I was able to grab the inner part so the outer ring/rubber were not stressed. That said the 3500 balancer is not being used. I'm using a 3400 balancer which is compatible with my external crank trigger. I went to Autozone this morning and rented the installer tool - thanks for the tip, I didn't get to installing the new balancer yet though.

Today I replaced the intake gaskets. 2 bolts were complete son-of-a-bitches, I mean real bastards. And those would be the 2 corner bolt that I couldn't get a socket on so I used a wrench. I even used a ratcheting wrench but they were so tight and I only had clearance to move the wrench less than 1/8 turn - it took so long to remove.

I took the intakes to the kitchen and cleaned them up real good and then baked them for a bit in the oven to make sure they were dry. Now, the Felpro gaskets came with instructions that stated not to use any sealer on the end piece gaskets (the little rubber strips) except for at the corners right before assembly. So I followed those directions and used some 'Right Stuff' at the corners. It all went together well and got torqued to spec (well except for those 2 bolts that I could only get a wrench on so I kinda just went by feel on those two).

Now, as far as the rockers go. Being my first dive into the 60v6 pushrod world (remember I come from an LQ1) I know that longer pushrod=exhaust valve and it seemed blatantly obvious which rockers correspond to which valves but for the sake of double checking is the below pic correct? If you click on the pic I labeled E and I.

I tightened the rocker bolts to 24 ft lbs per the 3500 torque specs. Does this sound right? No other lash adjustment, just 24 ft lbs and your are good to go?

Last question for now is about the serpentine belt tensioner. I installed a 3100 alternator bracket and now I'm not so sure that the tensioner from the 3500 is correct, maybe I'm just not sure how it mounts. Two pics below, the first is the alternator bracket. Which of the bolt holes would be the correct one for the tensioner as well? And the tensioner itself, is this the right one? The pulley on it is ribbed.


again, thank you for all the replies!

[pocket-rocket]

I don't know if I would use a balancer that's been removed with a 3 jaw puller since it could stress the elastomer to the point of premature failure. Go to either Advance or Autozone and rent a pulley and steering wheel puller and installer kit. Using the pulley bolt to press the balancer back on is a bad idea since you can royally screw up the threads in the crank.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Kit-45-Harmonic-Puller-Pulley-Installer-Set-Powerbuilt-Tools_9150003-P_N3491_T|GRP2083____

I actually caught one of these kits on ebay for $35-40 a year or two ago. One of the best tool investments I've made yet.

[jmgtp]

Ah I see. Can I use the bolt to press the pulley on? I don't have a puller/installer for the harmonic balancer. I used a 3 jaw pulled to remove it. It came off without a fight.

[pocket-rocket]

Just sqeeze a dab in the rear section of the key way in the balancer. Then when the pulley is pulled on with an installer it will seal up the key way.

BTW, someone needs to pressure was that poor 3x00 in that pic and buy a set of gaskets >.< I don't mind a small drip from a car, but that looks nasty.

[jmgtp]

Thanks for the pics. I happened across those same pics via google, they're from the w-body site writeup for the mount replacement.

I bought the bracket this morning to bolt to the oil pan from a 2000 3100 Grand Prix, I will buy a new (solid) motor mount for the same vehicle to assure a direct fit though it looks as if any 3100 w-car mount will work. I'm hoping that I can still use my 3.4 dohc rear mount in conjuction, that should allow for a pretty solid setup and will be good to handle hard shifts from the getrag.

Now that it is really coming together I'm excited to get the engine prepped and pull the old one out. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is welding up a crossover pipe using the LX9 manifolds or swapping on a 3400 set. And either way my downpipe will likely not be in the correct spot so I'll prolly be cutting, welding and fabricating there too. Not a big deal, just time consuming.

Thanks again for your replies, I really appreciate them and I am sure I will have more questions in the coming days/weeks.

edit: Almost forgot to ask! I removed the LX9 balancer last night. I'm going to be installing the external crank trigger and a 3400 balancer. Is it recommended to coat the crank snout with silicone before installing the balancer? I noticed that there was some gray color RTV on it but not much. Do I coat just the key way or the whole thing? Or not at all? I'm not sure why I need to since there is a seal there. BTW the crank is a 7484 which I believe is the better steel crankshaft.