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  • If you can't sell them....

    Well, I tried. And I failed. Nobody wanted my Grand Prix. Even for $2500 nobody wanted it. So, I'm resigned to the fact that I must keep it, but I don't want to be downhearted about it. After all, it's still the fastest DOHC W-Body on the planet. So I guess at this point I may as well try to get every last ounce of speed out of it.

    I'm pretty much done autocrossing it, although I'm not getting rid of that suspension. It's just too much fun taking cloverleaf on-ramps at 70. But to get to the next plateau, the one that takes me to and past 14.0, I know I need headers. I also know that a lot of 91-95 DOHC owners like myself want headers. So rather than trying to get a set made and just for me, I am reaching out to all the DOHC owners out there who want headers to get a group of interested parties out there together to invest time, money, and resources into headers we all can use. I'm happy to lend my car as the guinea pig for any R&D and testing, it's already been the guinea pig for so many other DOHC mods. I am also prepared to finance a great deal of the project assuming it's going to guarantee progress towards getting a batch of headers done.

    I tried to talk to Milzy about making a set since he'd already done 96-97 headers but he could care less, so screw him. And I know I could get a one off set done for myself at great expense but that only benefits me and not the community. So anyone interested can PM me or respond to this post. If you know a welder looking for work, or you work at a shop that can do it and you just need a car to make it happen, let me know.
    Last edited by OldSkoolGP; 12-13-2007, 10:24 PM.
    I may own a GTO now, but I'm still a 60V6er at heart.

  • #2
    If you weren't so far away.. and it wasn't so damn cold.. lol


    If you played with Legos as a kid chances are that you can build your own headers.. It just takes time, plus you DOHC guys have those weird shaped exhaust ports, that's gotta be fun.

    Good luck with any vendors, S&S wouldn't even give me the time of day when i offered to send them a complete set of headers for the pushrod V6 for them to copy. Milzy is a joke, his headers are shiney but that's about it, un-equal length.. bleh.


    I'd just start googling for headers and find a place that's close to you, see if you can sweet talk them into the R&D then a group buy. If you are lucky it might work out...
    Past Builds;
    1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
    1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
    Current Project;
    1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

    Comment


    • #3
      I have a guy down here already using my 92 5 speed Z34 parts car (it runs drives fine with a little work done to it like intake and cat-back just the car is wrecked) to build a set of headers and as soon as he is done he going to make a jig so that he can make more. I told that no one make headers so he wants to be first. when he is done I'll take plenty of pics and post them on here with a price.
      Last edited by latemodelnewbee; 12-07-2007, 11:29 PM.
      68 El camino 454 speed muncie 3.90 posi 12 bolt,
      80 Monza Spyder nasty buick 231/3.8l v6 200-4R 3.73 posi.
      60 Impala 2 door hardtop L79-327 T56 4.11 posi.
      83 wagoneer torque pig AMC 360 hydradrive (gm turbo 400 with stock sb chrysler bellhousing boltpattern) dana 20 transfer case dana 60 front GM 14 bolt rear. 401 in the wokrs
      91 Z34 now has a hm284. and belly pan in the works

      Comment


      • #4
        If he is serious about it, and he wants money to make a jig for extra, I'd be willing to invest. I would want to know information about his setup like what size the primaries are, how thick are the flanges he's using, how many pieces will it be when finished, and how many collection points will there be?
        I may own a GTO now, but I'm still a 60V6er at heart.

        Comment


        • #5
          I will talk to him maybe tomorrow about the jig. He said he would use 3/8" flanges, I was thinking 1 5/8 primaries and connection would be similar to pacesetter w-body 3800 headers http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/...8.html?image=0 (I coundn't get the link to work so you will have to copy and paste) but with out the flex pipe. He was also talking about bending me up an exhaust system for my Z34 in a 2 3/4"-3" main pipe and spliting into (2) 2 1/4" at the axle. We going to try to make fit like a stock system utilizing the factory hangers, oh ya all mandrel bent. I heard from this site that 2 1/2" is recomended but i figure with headers the motor can acually breath and use something that big.
          Last edited by latemodelnewbee; 12-08-2007, 07:18 AM. Reason: the link didn't work, damn
          68 El camino 454 speed muncie 3.90 posi 12 bolt,
          80 Monza Spyder nasty buick 231/3.8l v6 200-4R 3.73 posi.
          60 Impala 2 door hardtop L79-327 T56 4.11 posi.
          83 wagoneer torque pig AMC 360 hydradrive (gm turbo 400 with stock sb chrysler bellhousing boltpattern) dana 20 transfer case dana 60 front GM 14 bolt rear. 401 in the wokrs
          91 Z34 now has a hm284. and belly pan in the works

          Comment


          • #6
            Everything I'm hearing sounds good. Primary size is what I would have used and flanges sound thick enough. From the cat back you want 2 1/2". When I was going to design a set of headers I was going to combine them from a dual 2 1/4" to 3" collector, then come down to a cat or nothing if you can get away with it and go out to 2 1/2". All the math I've done says 2 1/2" is good for 300HP NA, but that initial collection site should be 3" to help with turbulance and reversion. Yeah, talk to him, but so far it sounds good and like I said I'll invest in a jig or whatever.
            I may own a GTO now, but I'm still a 60V6er at heart.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would be interested in a set, but it would be quite some time before I had the finances. Next batch of money I get will be going to head work and new timing belt stuff. I'd have to see how much money I'll have left from tax return after I do my other work. I Think it would be a great Idea though. I've always wanted headers.

              http://www.cardomain.com/id/toms92gp
              http://www.nightrydas.com/theprix.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                if you haven't done any headwork to the heads you have, you can always switch to 96-97 heads and buy the 96-97 headers. they fit well. I guinea-pigged them on my 94 gtp for a decent discount.

                if you have done headwork, you could try buying a set of 96-97 headers, remove the flanges and weld up a set of 91-95 flanges but it would be costly.

                there is also a company on ebay somewhere that used to sell 96-97 flanges for around $35. i do not believe there are any 91-95 flanges available.

                another thing you should try is to post on the fiero forums as there is a lq1 following over there and SOME of them will actually spend money to get parts made. aside from that, some1 may have already made a set of 91-95 headers. while they may or maynot fit your car, you could probably get a set of flanges cheap.

                although i see no personal benefits to this, i am however excited to see some1 get parts made whether they benefit me or not. I hope you succeed.
                The Official Rotating Mass Nazi

                Comment


                • #9
                  aren't the late model header still like 6 bills, and the air flow charts that i found on this site says that the older heads flow better on both intake and exhaust sides
                  68 El camino 454 speed muncie 3.90 posi 12 bolt,
                  80 Monza Spyder nasty buick 231/3.8l v6 200-4R 3.73 posi.
                  60 Impala 2 door hardtop L79-327 T56 4.11 posi.
                  83 wagoneer torque pig AMC 360 hydradrive (gm turbo 400 with stock sb chrysler bellhousing boltpattern) dana 20 transfer case dana 60 front GM 14 bolt rear. 401 in the wokrs
                  91 Z34 now has a hm284. and belly pan in the works

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    well i stand corrected the later model headers are $975 coated and $725 uncoated seems a bit much to buy them and chop off the flanges off
                    Last edited by latemodelnewbee; 12-10-2007, 05:33 AM.
                    68 El camino 454 speed muncie 3.90 posi 12 bolt,
                    80 Monza Spyder nasty buick 231/3.8l v6 200-4R 3.73 posi.
                    60 Impala 2 door hardtop L79-327 T56 4.11 posi.
                    83 wagoneer torque pig AMC 360 hydradrive (gm turbo 400 with stock sb chrysler bellhousing boltpattern) dana 20 transfer case dana 60 front GM 14 bolt rear. 401 in the wokrs
                    91 Z34 now has a hm284. and belly pan in the works

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Exactly. And because the 96-97 heads have those oval shaped port you can't just cut off the flanges and put new ones one. A properly made set of header has primaries that flow from the oval design to round so you'd have to cut a lot of pipe off to make that work. It wouldn't be worth it, and because there are way more 91-95 engines out there, that's the engine that headers should be made for.

                      I do have extensive head work done and if I'm running 14.3x I gotta believe the heada are doing their job. And I have no desire to rip the heads off my engine again. Obviously I want headers for myself first and foremost, but I want to make sure that a jig gets made by whoever is doing it so if someone else wants a set someday they can get it. Sound like latemodel has a guy that is willing to do that, but I also know that things like this have a tendency to fall through before they're done, so hopefully someone else would be willing to help get a set made too just so we have options. We have a race shop locally that I"m going to talk to about getting a set made and whether or not they'd be willing to make a jig as well.
                      I may own a GTO now, but I'm still a 60V6er at heart.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by latemodelnewbee View Post
                        aren't the late model header still like 6 bills, and the air flow charts that i found on this site says that the older heads flow better on both intake and exhaust sides

                        i got mine for less than 5 bills

                        there is an old saying, "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?" if you are not willing to pay 6 bills or more, i doubt you will get any custom headers.

                        it is the other way around on the headflow i think. stock, the intake flow is pretty close but favors the 91-95 heads(i forget the margin) and the exhaust flow heavily favors the 96-97 heads.

                        anyway, here is a little help. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062728-14.html

                        if there are any 91-95 headers to be found, they will most likely be in that thread somewhere. looks like some1 has a set of 96-97 headers in the last page of it but that doesn't help any of you.

                        granted fiero headers are not designed for your particular car but perhaps you could talk some $$$ to whoever made a set if you can find any to make them for your application.

                        p.s. more headers in this page: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062728-2.html also there is a user called emc209i and if you look in his sig there appears to be 91-95 headers on his fiero.

                        you have my support and good luck.
                        Last edited by dohcfiend; 12-10-2007, 07:33 PM.
                        The Official Rotating Mass Nazi

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          speed does cost money but there is two ways of doing it. throwing money at it until its fast and then buy the CORRECT parts to go faster cheaper
                          68 El camino 454 speed muncie 3.90 posi 12 bolt,
                          80 Monza Spyder nasty buick 231/3.8l v6 200-4R 3.73 posi.
                          60 Impala 2 door hardtop L79-327 T56 4.11 posi.
                          83 wagoneer torque pig AMC 360 hydradrive (gm turbo 400 with stock sb chrysler bellhousing boltpattern) dana 20 transfer case dana 60 front GM 14 bolt rear. 401 in the wokrs
                          91 Z34 now has a hm284. and belly pan in the works

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey if I wanted to get headers made just for me I would. It would cost me a ton and no one else would be able to get a set like them. I want to see somebody commit to making headers for the engine but leaving the option open for sets to be made when someone else wants them. Don't miss the point of what I'm trying to do here.
                            I may own a GTO now, but I'm still a 60V6er at heart.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              oldskoolgp,

                              i know exactly what your point is, I have done a few product runs myself. Hence my attempt to help by providing info on dohc headers already made.

                              1st you'd contact the owners, then the builders and see if one of them are game for a run of headers. IMO it would be easier trying to get in touch with some1 that has already made a set be4. It could positively affect the quality of your end products.

                              latemodelnewbee,

                              faster and cheaper...... kind of like military intelligence. contradictory in terms. i am sorry to come across the way i do but it is frustrating b/c if i had $1 for every time i seen a post like that, i'd have an 11 second lq1.

                              that isn't the hilarious part though, the hilarious part is the same users will turn around and complain about not having any parts. i am not asking you to randomly through money at stuff but to be realistic about how much stuff cost.

                              the price of metal is steadily rising which plays into it. take into account the fabricators that will make the headers. it would be safe to say an average fabricator probably would charge 75/hr and that is on the low end.

                              just guestimates here but:

                              i think it would be safe to say that it will cost about $800-$1000 to have a professional construct the prototypes. after that the price will drop to about $730 per set until about 5 sets are pre-ordered, $650 until about 10, 525 until 15 and about $400-450 for 20+ b/c you reach a point where they cannot be made any cheaper b/c they are made by people and people take a certain amount of time to make them plus they need to have profit as well.

                              so unless oldskool gets 11 or more people involved i think getting a set for less than 6 bills is quite unrealistic unless corners are cut.

                              i could be wrong but that is the way i see it as of now.
                              The Official Rotating Mass Nazi

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