Turbo timming.

[TurboGTU]

First off...for those who remember....I had a boot controller problem. The bootcontroler didn't work...well it turned out to be a bad solder connection on the ecm to femal plug... Got that fixed and it works now...

Well now Im pushing 9-11 psi... What would you recomend my initial spark advance be. I have set my initial spark advance to 11.25 after the boost adjustment. And it feels wayy better. It originaly had 9.14. I am running 93oct. No intercooler. Yea I know I should have one and will.

Heres my rpm and boost settigs at WOT.

2400 at 9.83
3200 at 10.17
4000 at 10.85
4800 at 10.29
5600 at 9.61
6400 at 8.59

Notice the max boost setting getting lower at higher rpms. I took a guestimate of what the T25 from the Turbo Grand prix could flow. .80 a/r.

I'll keep messing with the boost and timming for a while.

[nocutt]

Re: Turbo timming.

First off...for those who remember....I had a boot controller problem. The bootcontroler didn't work...well it turned out to be a bad solder connection on the ecm to femal plug... Got that fixed and it works now...

Well now Im pushing 9-11 psi... What would you recomend my initial spark advance be. I have set my initial spark advance to 11.25 after the boost adjustment. And it feels wayy better. It originaly had 9.14. I am running 93oct. No intercooler. Yea I know I should have one and will.

Heres my rpm and boost settigs at WOT.

2400 at 9.83
3200 at 10.17
4000 at 10.85
4800 at 10.29
5600 at 9.61
6400 at 8.59

Notice the max boost setting getting lower at higher rpms. I took a guestimate of what the T25 from the Turbo Grand prix could flow. .80 a/r.

I'll keep messing with the boost and timming for a while.

Very difficult situation, I really don't think there is a set recipe, because one driver will differ from another...I am sure there is a consensus as what people have agreed on...we are in somewhat of the same boat...lol!
I think the best way assuming you can toggle between a conservative map and an aggressive map...
I am not familiar with the 2.8/3.1 hybridized turbos...however I will add timing a degree at a time, as long as you add enough octane (highest available on pump gas) and then pull back timing when you notice knock...(then again you have no IC lol! My situation is a little different, I am working thru a blackbox...I remove some timing at the bottom, this way I create more heat to spool the turbo and then add enough at the top...
currently I am at 8psi and 15 degrees spark advance @ WOT...(CR is 9.4:1)...91 octane!
My aggressive tune is 11psi and 25 degrees spark advance @ WOT on homebrew ~104 octane!!...no knock thoughout the rev except when shifting ( Auto 1-2kr max, intentionally programmed to save tranny cost )...also a nice fuel curve will help quench some knock...
If you had access to a dyno even the better

[TurboGTU]

Well I did run into a glitch with the 11.25 advanced timming and 10.85psi on the highway the other night in third gear at about 85 or 90mph. Its sounded like the engine didn't like it. The computer was pulling out timming cuz of detonation I think.

Im going to lower the timming a tad and see how it runs... .then after that Im going for 10 psi and advanced timming.

I did have a "trans saver" boost ramp...but it felt like crap. I had like 4psi to start with and went up to 7 psi then after 4000 rmp...it was 10-11psi.

I have slightly lower compression than 8.9:1... I think its closer to 8.7 or so because of some meterial I took out of the cylinder head chambers to unshroud the valves a tad.

When I get the trans repaird "read 3t40 shift problems"....I will hit the track and swap chips I have programed to see which is closer to a good tune....and then inprove.

Whats funny is that the ford 2.3l turbo can take 14d of advanced timming at 15psi NO INTERCOOLER on a 3400lb car and have no detonation. Yet I bearly put a few degrees of advanced timming and 11psi and the engine wanted to crap out. What a crap. I think its the t-toosmall turbo creating too much heat.

[Norm '88 GT]

nocutt, your running an NA 3800 motor under boost? You know there is a difference in the SC and NA 3800s. Are you running an IC and what configuration?

I think my compression is very low 9.0's after the 3.1 was assembled. I run 33 degrees at cruise and 25 degrees under boost. I don't run under low rpm/high boost levels early like a turbo does and can probably get away with higher advance. I don't have a knock sensor do to F.A.S.T. programmable ECU with wideband(owns me!).

TurboGTU, like neither of us, our engines were not designed for boost which lowers our detonation thresold. That is pretty crazy to run without an IC. Just good insurance if your going to run more than a few PSI.

[nocutt]

nocutt, your running an NA 3800 motor under boost? You know there is a difference in the SC and NA 3800s. Are you running an IC and what configuration?...

For the better part of 7 years...the trick is octane and timing...the 3800N/A will take boost like it was crack...
L36---> <----boost juice!!

[Norm '88 GT]

nocutt, are you running alcohol or an IC? What does the black box control? Just timing?

92 octane here but I can really feel the diluted winter gas effect my A/F readings at cruise and usually have to reduce timing from October through April.

[nocutt]

nocutt, are you running alcohol or an IC? What does the black box control? Just timing?

92 octane here but I can really feel the diluted winter gas effect my A/F readings at cruise and usually have to reduce timing from October through April.

Actually two blackboxes...unfortunately...one is an ARC2 from www.splitsec.com and a turbolink from link electrosystems. The former is a maf recalibrator, while the later is a four-in-one unit. it is an electronic boost controller, additional injector controller, spark retard module and an RPM switch...
I use an A-2-A IC... and we have owl p!ss for octane, 91 is all you can get. If one feels froggy then 100 octane can help big time (only about 3 within the of city Lost Angels), however @ 6 bucks a gallon, I'll rather use homebrew to run more timing

[Norm '88 GT]

nocutt, obviously you have tuned on a dyno. What are your results? Pictures?

[nocutt]

nocutt, obviously you have tuned on a dyno. What are your results? Pictures?

Nope no Dyno sessions as of yet...not a priority, Tune? what is that?...lol!!
I am 'ol school more or less, I tune by feel and soem help from Atap. Pics are all over the net, bnet, bstuff...I haven't posted pics in a while, the car was in a mishap about 8 months ago...
Anywayz the last time I went to the track with the Westcoast GP (grand prix)boys...I was able to manage a 14.2 quarter mile time @ ~99MPH, 2.4X 60' with 4.5pk psi...with a whole lot of KR...NO race gas...

[Norm '88 GT]

I'll take a look. Thanks.

[Norm '88 GT]

What are you guys seeing on intake temps? This might limit how much timing you can run. I see a couple over ambient at cruise and 10F more on a single gear run at 8-9 psi with a centrifugal blower. I was seeing 10 psi/5000 rpms @ 30F but did another datalog today and was only making 9 psi/5000 @ 75 degrees. Damn belt driven blower. A/F stayed the same so in theroy I could bump the timing a bit and regain the loss. On a roadcourse this past fall I think I was within 30F of ambient with the Isuzu NPR IC.

[TurboGTU]

When I get my ALDL monitor the right plug, I will monitor the engine to see intake temps.

Well I pulled out the initial timming back to 9.14 and 9.8 psi with stock TGP main spark advance tables and it runs better. Before it had a softer main spark advance (got a bin code from a custom 5spd TGP). man I need that intercooler.