88 Camaro 2.8 to a 95 3.4 swap

[NArtissimus]

Hey everyone, been trying to keep up on the site but just too busy for posting so far. Really like that black Firebird project.

I've got an 88 Camaro with a 2.8MPFI and auto. K's are getting up there and I've been looking for a 3.4 for a while and I've finally found it. I just bought a 95 Camaro donor with a 3.4 and an auto that's gonna be parted.

I have some ignition and fuel injection specific questions for anyone who has maybe previously and succesfully done the swap, and what are some of the points I maybe overlooking right now, computer programs, fuel pressure, injectors, sensors, etc.

I'd preferably keep the 95 complete with the intake and ignition but as I just read the 3.4's were DIS motors and as far as the computers and harnesses go in the two years, is it do-able? My other easier choise is just to use the 3.4 long block and use the intake and accessories from my 2.8. But that just doesn't seem as attractive.

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks, Art

[geoffinbc]

Yes you can swap in the 3.4L harness and it will all run fine you will just have to bypass the VATS system.

Or if you cannot get a 3.4L ECM the 2.8L ECM can be used and will run the DIS system as well.

[Canyonero]

I have an extra auto 3.4L ECU from my swap if you end up needing one. My donor engine was from an auto too, but I needed a manual ECU for my truck.

[ForcedFirebird]

I wouldn't use the 3.4 ECM, it's not tunable for future modifications.

Going from a 2.8 to a 3.4 is as simple as 305 to 350. Use all your manifolds and injectors etc, and plop everythin on the 3.4 long block (heads are identical). Most of they guys who have done it in 3rd generation fbodies have either turned up the fuel pressure a little bit, or used slightly larger injectors with the stock tune, and works great for a simple swap.

Thanks for the props on the Bird

[Canyonero]

Thanks for the props on the Bird

I bet he was talking about the OTHER black Firebird.

[NArtissimus]

Hey thanks for the help everyone,

Well first of all I have the complete running car so I have the ECM from the 3.4 aswell. Just wondering if the harnesses and the computers are interchangeable with the two chassis, like "plug-n-play". I mean can I use the 3.4 with the 2.8 harness and the 3.4 ECM for example, and still have the electronics inside the car work? I mean I'm assuming that because of the DIS I'd have to use the 3.4 harness and I also saw that the 3.4 uses a MAP sensor and mine works off of Mass Airflow. So different sensors meaning different readings and also different plugs.

Also Mr.Firebird, and yes I did mean yours heh heh it's friggin sweet!!, why would you not recommend the 3.4 ECM? Does the 2.8 ECM know to adapt to the DIS? I know V8 cars I can bypass the VATS by changing the prom but as far as I knew these could not be changed in the V6 ECM's, or are they all the same with different programs? (Damn Computers, carb motors were so much easier to cram in Chevettes and Vegas)

And one last thing for now is that do I have to worry about the operating fuel pressure change from the 2.8 to the 3.4? Being Multiport before I would assume the pressure would be up there but never know.

Thats it for now, Getting the car home on Saturday and then it's taredown time.

Later, Art

[ForcedFirebird]

Also Mr.Firebird, and yes I did mean yours heh heh it's friggin sweet!!, why would you not recommend the 3.4 ECM? Does the 2.8 ECM know to adapt to the DIS? I know V8 cars I can bypass the VATS by changing the prom but as...

You are making things far more complicated by changing the ECM. Just use the 3.4 long block with the heads on it, then use your current intake manifolds, ECM, sensors, brackets, distributor etc. The 3.4 and 2.8 is dimensionally the same

PS Thanks again, just seems like it's taking forever to get the car done, every time I turn around it seems another good deal comes along, lol.

[NArtissimus]

Ok I see where you're going with this. I know the blocks and heads are identical on the outside with maybe a few differences in the side holes on the heads for accessories. I was looking just for a long block originally to use all my stock gear.

But Now that I've found a car to donate everything I would rather put the extra effort into it to make it work like it sits in the 95. If that's feasible that is... I mean if it means to rip the harness out of the 95 so be it. The car's no good for nothing after so... The only issue I'm worried about is to make the old car work with the new computer.

I'd just like to be able to lift the hood and see a 3.4 with DIS instead of the same old 2.8 intake. It's almost like going from a TPI motor to an LS1, some people would look at it and realize that some work went into it.

But in the end, I'll have to do whatever works...

[Canyonero]

I'd just like to be able to lift the hood and see a 3.4 with DIS instead of the same old 2.8 intake. It's almost like going from a TPI motor to an LS1, some people would look at it and realize that some work went into it.

Yeah, that's a dumb idea...

1990 Isuzu Trooper LS
Before (2.8L TBI)


After (3.4L SFI)

[ForcedFirebird]

The 3.4 intake doesn't perform as well as the 2.8 intake, but either way you can still use your ECM! The DIS module takes the same exact signal as the distributor does

As I said before, put the engine in there and use your current electronics, it will work with either manifold.

Again, shy away from the OBD1.5 ECM if possible, when you get to tuning you'll appreciate it - otherwise you will have to convert back to the origional ECM to make any tuning changes.

[NArtissimus]

Thanks, any ideas and help is definately appreciated. You guys have actually done stuff with V6's unlike my local f-body site. All the know is how to talk trash, so thanks.

Okay, so the 2.8 ECM it is. So the signal is the same for the DIS and the original distributor style... That's good to know, I would assume (only assume) that the individual coilpacks would get better performance/reliability than a seperate coil and rotary setup. I mean everything in modern performance is going to that.

Now why do you say that the 3.4 intake woun't perform as well? Wouldn't the 2.8 runners be too small to feed the 3.4? I mean in the end the whole swap is all about performance gains over the 2.8 so I guess finding the right combo between the two motors is what I'm after. If the 2.8 intake will perform better then that's definately going on. I can always grind the 2.8 off of it.

Thanks, Art

[ForcedFirebird]

Now why do you say that the 3.4 intake woun't perform as well? Wouldn't the 2.8 runners be too small to feed the 3.4? I mean in the end the whole swap is all about performance gains over the 2.8 so I guess finding the right combo between the two motors is what I'm after. If the 2.8 intake will perform better then that's definately going on. I can always grind the 2.8 off of it.

Thanks, Art

The 3.4 manifold was basically a 2.8/3.1 manifold that had the top end middle manifold welded together - only because the earlier manifolds won't fit under the 4th gen fbody cowl - it wasn't changed for improvement.

Ask any 4th gen fbod with a 3.4 what happens at 4500 rpm. Falls flat on it's face. GM took a bad manifold design and made it worse.

[Canyonero]

Something that would have been nice to know before I put my 3.4L in. That's why I'm here... Now I'm working on switching to an '02 3400 top end.

[NArtissimus]

Thanks I'll take your word for it, I just figured that they would have learned. I guess none of these motors were really meant to 'perform' anyways, and barely made functional. Okay so I'll keep the top end of the 2.8 then, it's that much easier with the tb and mass airflow and stuff anyways. Now what do you think of the DIS?? Is it worth making that work or will the distributor do the same. I'm sure the connection and wiring isn't the same so how much extra hassle is that? One thing I'm a little unsure of is that the 2.8 ECM will run the DIS and also will it recognize the MAP if I need to use it... Reason f is, how does the computer know to when to fire the proper cylinder of the packs when it's used to just sending a pulse to the coil for the distributor. Is that what you are running in the 'Bird?

3400 Top end with the aluminum heads would be nice. I actually have a complete 3400 (LA1) from a 04 Venture that I was gonna try to retrofit originally, but didn't think the ignition was gonna be doable and the heads wouldn't bolt to my headers. The crank and the heads are really nice though. All rollerized and the crank seems to be cut balanced better too. Actually was gonna see if the roller rockers would go on the 3.4 heads. But I do have to say that 3.4 looks pretty cool in the s10 thou, see if I'd see that person I'd be much more impressed than just another 2.8 heheh But again if the 2.8 intake will take me to the 17's on the 1/4... hehehe

Hey are those MSD pack on the 3.4?? Did they make any difference? I put all MSD on the 2.8 with a Blaster coil and 8.5mm wires and hotter plugs. It seemed to run alot better for me... but the stuff I replaced could have been the original 20 year old crap thou. But my MSD wires dried and cracked in just over a year. Kinda pissed at that, now I think I'm gonna try those super thin silicone ones...

Art

[1meanz]

do the 3400 top end on the 3.4 block. and get a computer from a cavalier or something. ALOT more power, and looks better also