Looking to swap in a Manual Trans - Need Help

[Schmieder]

1996 Pontiac Grand Prix SE
3100 60v6 L82 Turbo
4t60e AutoTrans
97v6 PCM

What should I expect? Is it a reasonable job or will I be required to do some steel cutting/welding?

I researched Manual Transmissions and figured the Getrag 282 would be a good option considering availability, servicability and performance.

But I can not find any for sale anywhere, what gives?

As far as the swap, what more would I need besides the Pedals, Master/Slave Cylinders, shifter and trans?

Any tips, links to detailed threads, ect?

I really need to ditch the 4T60e quick. It is my last weak link and needs to go so I can boost up more. Besides, manuals are just so much fun with a turbo!

i am a noob at tranny swaps so I need all the help I can get, lol. If any one is in the Pittsburgh area I can pay for a days work plus some swapping the trans. I'll have all the tools including impact wrench, twin tool compressor, engine lift, MiG Welder, Steel cutting tools, air wratchet (gotta love it), beer, pizza, ect.

[pocket-rocket]

You will need to modify your in bay harness some. I bypassed the P/N safety switch on the 91 when I swapped in the 284. I also undid the loom and moved the VSS wire from the passenger side to the drivers side and IIRC the plug was the same on the VSS for the 5 speed (but on a 284, not sure about a 282). You will also probably want to swap the plate in the firewall that the brake booster and pedals mount to. There is a hole on it that the slave goes through that's not the same between one for a manual and an auto. I modified mine to make it fit, but in turn had to modify the mounting point for the master on the clutch pedal.

[Schmieder]

You will need to modify your in bay harness some. I bypassed the P/N safety switch on the 91 when I swapped in the 284. I also undid the loom and moved the VSS wire from the passenger side to the drivers side and IIRC the plug was the same on the VSS for the 5 speed (but on a 284, not sure about a 282). You will also probably want to swap the plate in the firewall that the brake booster and pedals mount to. There is a hole on it that the slave goes through that's not the same between one for a manual and an auto. I modified mine to make it fit, but in turn had to modify the mounting point for the master on the clutch pedal.

I don't mind drilling through the plate for the slave cylinder. I have plenty of scrap steel, cutting tools and a welder.

About how high up should I jack the front end? So I can lower the trans out the bottom. For this project I will be purchasing a good engine lift and trans floor jack on wheels.

So as long as the height needed is typical of a good pair of jack stands.

Is there a specific vendor someone can point me too who sells the Getrag-282? I must be missing something because I can't find ANY for sale.

[pocket-rocket]

Try www.car-part.com I've done tranny replacements on jack stands. Basically you mainly need enough for the trans to clear the car, but with tires off, ect, it's not too bad. We removed the engine from the 91 when we did the swap. It did make it a bit easier. Leaving the rear down will also help raise the front if you place the stands at about the front of the doors, as you probably already know. As far as that plate goes, the round hole on the angled portion that has a grommet in it (most people use that grommet to pass car alarm and stereo amplifier wiring through the firewall) is where you need to focus your attention. That hole needed to be turned into a stop sign shaped hole. Since we had a parts/donor car about 30-40 feet from the 91, it made things way easier. When it came time for that hole, I ended up sticking a piece of wood behind the hole and spray painting the hole shape onto the wood, then ever so carefully in small cuts started cutting the shape out on a band saw until the wood was the same exact size as the hole in the firewall plate on the donor car. Then I went to town (and the city, and the country.... it took a really really long time) using a Dremel to make the round hole the same as the block of wood. Then I had to knock the pin off the clutch pedal and relocate it and have a friend weld it into place so the master would hook to it. It ended up busting off, so I think I ended up drilling a hole in the pedal and ran a bolt and nut through it to use as a pin instead.

[Schmieder]

Try www.car-part.com I've done tranny replacements on jack stands. Basically you mainly need enough for the trans to clear the car, but with tires off, ect, it's not too bad. We removed the engine from the 91 when we did the swap. It did make it a bit easier. Leaving the rear down will also help raise the front if you place the stands at about the front of the doors, as you probably already know. As far as that plate goes, the round hole on the angled portion that has a grommet in it (most people use that grommet to pass car alarm and stereo amplifier wiring through the firewall) is where you need to focus your attention. That hole needed to be turned into a stop sign shaped hole. Since we had a parts/donor car about 30-40 feet from the 91, it made things way easier. When it came time for that hole, I ended up sticking a piece of wood behind the hole and spray painting the hole shape onto the wood, then ever so carefully in small cuts started cutting the shape out on a band saw until the wood was the same exact size as the hole in the firewall plate on the donor car. Then I went to town (and the city, and the country.... it took a really really long time) using a Dremel to make the round hole the same as the block of wood. Then I had to knock the pin off the clutch pedal and relocate it and have a friend weld it into place so the master would hook to it. It ended up busting off, so I think I ended up drilling a hole in the pedal and ran a bolt and nut through it to use as a pin instead.

Ok, I'm starting to get the idea. It doesn't seem as hard as I imagined it to be.

How easy was it to secure the shifter firmly and what about the center console fitment? I hope I am not asking too many questions.

As far as the P/N bypass thing, I can set the trans type in the bin file I have so I think I can tune the PCM for a manual. I have to look into that.

Will there be any special adapters needed from Trans to CV Axle?

Wow, I'm getting pumped up for this. I don't care how cold it gets in the garage. I love driving manual especially in a car that can pull hard.

[Schmieder]

So here is my initial list of materials needed. Am I forgeting anything?

Getrag282 or similar trans
Master Cylinder
Slave Cylinder
Shifter Cables
Shifter
Pedal Assembly
Clutch cables
Firewall plate

Rolling tranny floor jack
Engine Lift
2x Tall Jack Stands

[pocket-rocket]

In the 91 (which could have come with a manual) the provisions for the shifter to mount to the floor were already there. Also as far as the center console goes, all I had to do was swap the plate the shifter went through along with the shifter. The 284 has a stub shaft that goes between one of the axles and the tranny, but I've heard a 4T60-E axle is the same as the axle and stub shaft assembly, IIRC. The P/N bypass is also so the P/N switch doesn't keep the start signal from getting to the starter and wiring in reverse lights to the tranny. Also my trunk popper ran off of it as well since you couldn't pop the trunk while in gear. As far as the hole for the shifter cables (which I forgot to mention) there was a perforated hole on the firewall close to the footwell on the passenger side that got knocked out for the cables. I am not sure if your 96 will have this. You also might want to purchase a clutch and won't need clutch cables with a hydraulic clutch

[Schmieder]

In the 91 (which could have come with a manual) the provisions for the shifter to mount to the floor were already there. Also as far as the center console goes, all I had to do was swap the plate the shifter went through along with the shifter. The 284 has a stub shaft that goes between one of the axles and the tranny, but I've heard a 4T60-E axle is the same as the axle and stub shaft assembly, IIRC. The P/N bypass is also so the P/N switch doesn't keep the start signal from getting to the starter and wiring in reverse lights to the tranny. Also my trunk popper ran off of it as well since you couldn't pop the trunk while in gear. As far as the hole for the shifter cables (which I forgot to mention) there was a perforated hole on the firewall close to the footwell on the passenger side that got knocked out for the cables. I am not sure if your 96 will have this. You also might want to purchase a clutch and won't need clutch cables with a hydraulic clutch

Ah yes, I see. As long as there isn't any tricky or hard to find part issues I can breeze through this.

I have a natural talent fabricating things from raw materials (steel, Fiberglass, ect). If I had to I'de drill the hole, insert a grommet and weather proof it.

So I think I have enough courage to do this. What blocks will a 282 bolt up to? 3100, 3400, .....? 3500, ? 2.0L, 2.8L ? Just to be sure I'm purchasing the proper transmission. It seems I MUST get it from a W-Body donor to simplify the installation.

Wish me luck fellas, in a few days I will be gathering all the needed parts and tools.

Can anyone recommend a good Limited slip differential for the Getrag HD-282 ?

[pocket-rocket]

2.2, 2.8, 3.1, 3100, 3400, 3500, 3.4 DOHC, 3800 come to mind. Yeah, I've read the W body donor is the way to go as far as you are concerned. Honestly, as bright as you are, you won't need luck I'm not that bright and I got mine done. As for an LSD, I'm not sure. Some have said Team Green are good, some say they suck, there's Jeff from EP on here as well, but you would need to wait to get it. Not sure who else makes them.

[Schmieder]

2.2, 2.8, 3.1, 3100, 3400, 3500, 3.4 DOHC, 3800 come to mind. Yeah, I've read the W body donor is the way to go as far as you are concerned. Honestly, as bright as you are, you won't need luck I'm not that bright and I got mine done. As for an LSD, I'm not sure. Some have said Team Green are good, some say they suck, there's Jeff from EP on here as well, but you would need to wait to get it. Not sure who else makes them.

Me, smart, lol. My friends say I'm the smartest dumb guy or the Dumbest Smart Guy, either. My phuck-ups are classic. But intelligence is subjective as here I am asking you for answers. When it comes to these vehicles you have a greater deal of experience then I, for now, lol. Most people would be impressed with what you have done to your car. Intelligence is a curse as much as it is a blessing. But I understand what you are saying.

Isn't there a vendor which sells new Getrag/Muncie 282's ? Or am I stuck with hunting for a used/reman trans?

I noticed Milzymotorsports is using an F40 Manual for their swaps in the N and W-Bodies. Having a kit would be nice but their prices are too high for what I can do otherwise. Will these F40 6-speed manuals fit in to my W-Body? Would it involve just a little mount fabricating or will it involve different axles, ect ? Cause a 6-Speed from a newer vehicle obviously has it's benefits.

Why doesn't WOT-TECH sell reman manuals for the 60v6? If there was a 282 install kit I would have already bought it.

[pocket-rocket]

I would suggest the install kits to Ben and John, but Ben was working from his garage with limited space and focused his attention to research to produce better parts. That's why Ben was not selling remanned transmissions. I've seen a couple threads where someone swapped in an F40 into a W, but part of the drivers side frame rail had to be notched and reboxed. I don't recall if mounts had to be fabricated or not, and I don't recall what axles were used. I'm not sure about a vendor selling new 282's (I'm not even sure if you can even get a brand new 282), but you could check ebay and craigslist for a reman.

As for the dumb smart guy/smart dumb guy and classic screw ups, I think we are a lot alike in that sense (except you can fabricate ), lol. One time I was so tired after work and decided it was time to change the timing belt on the 91. Dumb me forgot to do one so simple step of the procedure and didn't rotate the crank one turn before locking the cams to the gears. When it started, it sounded strange, but it ran fine otherwise. It also had torque down low that it never had before, mainly because the two cylinders that are normally opposite of each other that are paired on each coil were now firing together as a twin 3 cylinder. So, instead of 4 being on the intake while 1 was on the exhaust stroke, 1 and 4 were firing together, lol.

[Schmieder]

I would suggest the install kits to Ben and John, but Ben was working from his garage with limited space and focused his attention to research to produce better parts. That's why Ben was not selling remanned transmissions. I've seen a couple threads where someone swapped in an F40 into a W, but part of the drivers side frame rail had to be notched and reboxed. I don't recall if mounts had to be fabricated or not, and I don't recall what axles were used. I'm not sure about a vendor selling new 282's (I'm not even sure if you can even get a brand new 282), but you could check ebay and craigslist for a reman.

As for the dumb smart guy/smart dumb guy and classic screw ups, I think we are a lot alike in that sense (except you can fabricate ), lol. One time I was so tired after work and decided it was time to change the timing belt on the 91. Dumb me forgot to do one so simple step of the procedure and didn't rotate the crank one turn before locking the cams to the gears. When it started, it sounded strange, but it ran fine otherwise. It also had torque down low that it never had before, mainly because the two cylinders that are normally opposite of each other that are paired on each coil were now firing together as a twin 3 cylinder. So, instead of 4 being on the intake while 1 was on the exhaust stroke, 1 and 4 were firing together, lol.

Ebay doesn't have a very good selection at all. Not one single getrag 282 except one that was for a quad 4 HO but that will not have the mounting ability. Unless its ok for me to weld up a tapped and threaded block as a custom mount?

Classic screw ups, haha...that is a face palm moment. I forgot to reattach the fuel hose to tank from the fill up thing (when I installed the Walbro Pump). After roughly 1-2 gallons were pumped is when I realized my car was pissing fuel all over.

Another one is when I was working on an experimental PCM file. It was a different downloaded bin file for the 2 bar map. It was risky because I had to inject the VIN via hex editor. So the code was messed up where it was injected. It was anyones guess as to what was written over. I just transfered all the data from my current PCM file and was technically ready to test flash. Well, I quick decided to get a VE log w/o the MAF so I flashed the current file with a few changes, ect, ect. Little did I realize I flashed the experimental file and drove off with a 1bar map still installed. When the car warmed up it wanted to die and drove horribly. It took me almost an hour sitting on the side of the road trying to figure out what was wrong. When it hit me I checked the file I had opened in HPT. Sure enough I flashed the experimental file.

I needed a 2 bar map to get home. By the hands of God or just fantastic luck I had the 2bar map sensor with me. Swapped the plug and vac lines, ripped out the check valve and she started right up. Drove very well. So I can say the experimental file worked after all.


Am I using the wrong name for the Getrag 282? Any other search terms/names for such transmission? I tried Muncie 282, Getrag 282, GM Manual Transmissions, getrag 5 speed, ect.........the lack of product for sale is surprising.

[pocket-rocket]

Technically it is a Muncie, but any of the Fiero guys will call it a Getrag.

Classic screw ups We should make a thread titled this, lol. I know we aren't the only two that have stupid moments like this. Once I was working on a 3400 in a van for someone. He was right next to me talking with me as I was running a tap down the holes in the heads for the LIM bolts chasing the crap out of them. The next thing I know, the stupid little rod that is used as a handle on my tap set slides out (only pinched at 1 end) and down into the lifter valley falling inside the engine. I looked at him and stopped turning the tap as he stops talking, and I take a few steps back in an extreme moment of anger control. Luckily I had to drop the pan either way to change the gasket on it and the stupid thing had fallen all the way down. Now I take a second to wrap a couple layers of electrical tape around the non crimped end before I go near an open engine with my tap set.

EDIT: Screw ups thread posted

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/48029-Classic-wrench-turning-screw-ups?p=435763#post435763

[BobC]

I have a fresh remanufactured Getrag 284 in a box, still, that I'd like to sell. Cost was $2300, and if I could get 1/2 that for it, I'd be ok.

[Schmieder]

I have a fresh remanufactured Getrag 284 in a box, still, that I'd like to sell. Cost was $2300, and if I could get 1/2 that for it, I'd be ok.

$1200 + s/h ?

How well will it bolt up to a W-Body? Are the shifters, cables, M/S Cylinders just as hard to find?


Turbo 3100 (from 96 GP) + Muncie 284 + Lumina Z34 ->> Not a bad idea.