? about waste spark coils

[redlinekink99]

would if u flip flop the wires for the companion cylinders on each of the coils, wouldnt it still run fine? like for example 1 and 4 coil lets say take the number 1 plug wire and put it on the number 4 termail on the coil and take number 4 wire and put it on the number 1 terminal

[sprucegagt]

You can switch the wires per coil and it will make no difference. Both towers on each coil will fire at the same time.

What are you trying to diagnosis?

[redlinekink99]

ok there was a 96 saturn that came in to work today sombody tryed put plugs and wires on and it idled fine but when under load it would missfire real bad so i checked the firing order and the wires were fliped around on both coils so i switched them back and it ran perfect there were some history codes saying coil one and four cutout and coil two and three cutout and then a close to engine stall code but i just switch them back and now its fine i kinda thought i was going crazy cause it doe make sense that it could work both ways i had another tech trying to tell me that the coil that was firing for exhaust was trying to fire for compression so its a weaking spark but thats how the system works pressure on the compression stroke will juice the coil eather it likes it or not> im confused

[Joseph Upson]

ok there was a 96 saturn that came in to work today sombody tryed put plugs and wires on and it idled fine but when under load it would missfire real bad so i checked the firing order and the wires were fliped around on both coils so i switched them back and it ran perfect there were some history codes saying coil one and four cutout and coil two and three cutout and then a close to engine stall code but i just switch them back and now its fine i kinda thought i was going crazy cause it doe make sense that it could work both ways i had another tech trying to tell me that the coil that was firing for exhaust was trying to fire for compression so its a weaking spark but thats how the system works pressure on the compression stroke will juice the coil eather it likes it or not> im confused

Maybe it had something to do with the wires laying across eachother as a result of the relocation (especially if they are budget wires) causing electrical induction interference at the higher rpm. I didn't know the crank position sensor wires had to be twisted together to prevent that until I looked at a wiring diagram for the 3.4L camaro which actually has it notated; not less than 9 turns per foot. The CPS tracing on the oscilloscope was very abnormal with the wires untwisted and firing was intermittent.

I've never heard that swapping the wires around on their designated coil made any difference. If I understand the GM literature correctly, they fire at the same time with the spark jumping from the plug tip to the electrode on one plug and the opposite on the other plug due to the direction of current flow.

[redlinekink99]

Maybe it had something to do with the wires laying across eachother as a result of the relocation (especially if they are budget wires) causing electrical induction interference at the higher rpm. I didn't know the crank position sensor wires had to be twisted together to prevent that until I looked at a wiring diagram for the 3.4L camaro which actually has it notated; not less than 9 turns per foot. The CPS tracing on the oscilloscope was very abnormal with the wires untwisted and firing was intermittent.

I've never heard that swapping the wires around on their designated coil made any difference. If I understand the GM literature correctly, they fire at the same time with the spark jumping from the plug tip to the electrode on one plug and the opposite on the other plug due to the direction of current flow.

yea that does make alot of sense well at least i got paid .5 for 20 minutes lol thanks very much

[atomicpunk]

waste spark coils fire two cylinders at once, however, the polarity (direction of spark) is reversed. example:
cylinder number one on compression stroke at the firing point, and the spark plug fires normally, however the number 4 cylinder that is fired at the same time, the spark jumps from the ground probe to the center. i'm pretty sure that the wasted spark is not as strong as the normal spark. however i could be wrong

[96ols60degree]

HUH?WTBEEP? YOU CAN DO THAT,HOW CONFUSING.

[pocket-rocket]

HUH?WTBEEP? YOU CAN DO THAT,HOW CONFUSING.

If you mean how can it fire 2 plugs at once, it's because one cylinder in the pair is on the compression stroke and the other is on the exhaust stroke. Nothing really happens in the cylinder that's on the exhaust stroke, but it's purpose at that point in time is to complete the circuit from tower to tower on the coil pack.

[atomicpunk]

If you mean how can it fire 2 plugs at once, it's because one cylinder in the pair is on the compression stroke and the other is on the exhaust stroke. Nothing really happens in the cylinder that's on the exhaust stroke, but it's purpose at that point in time is to complete the circuit from tower to tower on the coil pack.

not to be arguementative but the original purpose was to cut back on hydrocarbon emissions. basically it burns any gas that might not have been burned during combustion. this cuts back on raw fuel being dumped into your cat and destroying it.

[Guest]

waste spark coils fire two cylinders at once, however, the polarity (direction of spark) is reversed. example:
cylinder number one on compression stroke at the firing point, and the spark plug fires normally, however the number 4 cylinder that is fired at the same time, the spark jumps from the ground probe to the center. i'm pretty sure that the wasted spark is not as strong as the normal spark. however i could be wrong

Uhhh, both towers discharge a spark at the same time. There is one pair of terminals to charge the primary coil. There is no way for the coil to send more spark to one tower or the other.

[pocket-rocket]

not to be arguementative but the original purpose was to cut back on hydrocarbon emissions. basically it burns any gas that might not have been burned during combustion. this cuts back on raw fuel being dumped into your cat and destroying it.

I didn't even think about this, nor have I heard it brought up before, but it does make sense

[atomicpunk]

Uhhh, both towers discharge a spark at the same time. There is one pair of terminals to charge the primary coil. There is no way for the coil to send more spark to one tower or the other.

both towers do not send a spark at the same time. the two towers and connected internally via a coil. which lays parallel to the primary coil. the interuption of current flow through the primary circuit collapses the magntic field and sends high voltage running through the other coil. the electricity then flows through the wires. and it will jump the spark plug gap with the smallest gap. so in a way, you were right and you were wrong. and i was part right and part wrong. your right in saying theres no way for more spark at one tower. so whatever spark plug has the smallest gap will be the first to fire. the second will be less than a millisecond later.

this is what i was taught.

[Guest]

both towers do not send a spark at the same time. the two towers and connected internally via a coil. which lays parallel to the primary coil. the interuption of current flow through the primary circuit collapses the magntic field and sends high voltage running through the other coil. the electricity then flows through the wires. and it will jump the spark plug gap with the smallest gap. so in a way, you were right and you were wrong. and i was part right and part wrong. your right in saying theres no way for more spark at one tower. so whatever spark plug has the smallest gap will be the first to fire. the second will be less than a millisecond later.

this is what i was taught.

Goes against all electrical theory.

Well the way the coil charges is correct...

Both plugs will have the same gap, or should...

But the higher cylinder pressure of the cylinder on the compression stroke will, electrically, "look like" a larger gap, since it is harder for the spark to jump the gap in a cylinder with high pressure.

[atomicpunk]

Goes against all electrical theory.

Well the way the coil charges is correct...

Both plugs will have the same gap, or should...

But the higher cylinder pressure of the cylinder on the compression stroke will, electrically, "look like" a larger gap, since it is harder for the spark to jump the gap in a cylinder with high pressure.

how does that go against electrical theory? basic electrical theory is that voltage flows through the path of least resistance. and i would assume that which ever spark plug gsp is smaller, even by hundreths of a millimeter, would be the path of least resistance. but what you said about the pressure in the combustion chamber kinda seemed backwards to me. in a way it make sense to me. but i would think since the fuel and air is packed tighter and closer to the spark, there would be less resistance...oh well, anyway, this thread kinda went a little overboard