Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Turbine housing sizing + quickspool valve

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Turbine housing sizing + quickspool valve

    Im crossing into some new territory. I want to use a quickspool valve on a t3 divided exhaust housing. Im using a GT3582R compressor and have the choices of a .78, .82, or 1.06 A.R. divided turbine.

    The problem is that I dont have a single uasable mathmatic equation to calculate airflow based on turbine size. The valve in its closed position, will help to spool up quickly and then open fully for minimal restriction when the enigine is at full load. This ultimately will give the ability to use a larger turbine housing. It works on the same principle as a variable-vane turbine. (kinda like using nitrous to help spool up a large turbo) Im just not sure how big a turbine housing that I can get away with.

    A .82 A.R. would definitely work well (.41 A.R. at low load with the valve closed), But I think that I can get away with a bit larger still. Id like to use the divided T3 w/ 1.06 A.R.

    Its all a glorious game of guessing. Any input on this?


    BTW... Im not using the "Sound Performance" piece pictured here because they want WAY too much money for it. (like $500... ouch) Im having Mark at TCE built it for me. Itll probably have better build quality too.
    Last edited by Driver_10; 10-03-2010, 01:14 PM.
    Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

  • #2
    This is the only thing I can really contribute.



    But you prolly already knew all that

    1990 ASC/McLaren Turbo Grand Prix 3500 swap GT3076R turbo 40lb/hr injectors FMIC LX9 coils Megasquirt2 v3.0

    Comment


    • #3
      Ha ha. At least you were trying. Im pretty well knowlegable about compressors (like you said)... I just dont know jack about choosing turbines.

      Hmm... I guess a better question to ask would be, "what is the largest T3 turbine housing that anyone here has successfully used". If someone could answer that, then I could take a guess at how large a housing I could get away with if Im using the quickspool valve.

      Its not exact sciene, but at least its a start.
      Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

      Comment


      • #4
        I finally got my gt3271 up and running on my 2800 hybrid. It has the 0.78AR twin scroll turbine housing, and I can have 4 psi in 5th gear at 2500 rpm (highway speed). I built a custom crossover to run the separate banks to each side of the turbine. Spool is not an issue at all. It almost spools as quickly as my old TGP T25. If you've dedicated yourself to the quick spool valve, I'd probably try the large 1.06 AR housing. You may find that with your extra displacement you don't even need the spool valve though.

        Comment


        • #5
          Go with as much as you need, you can always upgrade. If it's top end all out performance you want go witht he 1.xx series but if you're looking for low end short burst performance the .82 maybe the best route.
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ghrarhg View Post
            I finally got my gt3271 up and running on my 2800 hybrid. It has the 0.78AR twin scroll turbine housing, and I can have 4 psi in 5th gear at 2500 rpm (highway speed). I built a custom crossover to run the separate banks to each side of the turbine. Spool is not an issue at all. It almost spools as quickly as my old TGP T25. If you've dedicated yourself to the quick spool valve, I'd probably try the large 1.06 AR housing. You may find that with your extra displacement you don't even need the spool valve though.
            If you dont mind, I love to see some pics of your set-up.
            Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joseph Upson View Post
              Go with as much as you need, you can always upgrade. If it's top end all out performance you want go witht he 1.xx series but if you're looking for low end short burst performance the .82 maybe the best route.
              Thanks for the list bro. I feel pretty sure about using the bigger 1.06 housing now. I could also use a manual boost control valve to set the opening and shutting pressure.

              I bet that I could generate a pretty broad torque curve.
              Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Driver_10 View Post
                If you dont mind, I love to see some pics of your set-up.
                Here are some pics during the process, overall I didn't document this too well unfortunately.

                Here's my crossover, starting with a TGP x-over and basically just hacking the ends off it:


                It's clamped into the vise by the trans mount. The welds aren't as boogery as the pictures lead you to believe.

                3" Downpipe w/6 bolt outlet flange


                Here are some crappy pics of everything as of last night. I had an issue where my oil feel line failed on Sunday and sprayed oil all over my engine compartment, fixing that now.


                Using a stock TGP intercooler with a 90 elbow welded onto it. It's not ideal but the fastest way to get up and running this season, and it seems to work alright for now.




                More to follow, and hopefully a few vids once I get the new oil line in tonight.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cool build, thanks for the pics. I look forewards to seeing your vids when you post em'.

                  Oh yeah. I actually found an even larger 1.15 divided t3 housing. Theres a company that makes a water/oil cooled turbo based off of the GT35r that Ill be using. (I really wish that I could remember the name of the manufacture) Thier version comes with a CNC, billet, alloy compressor wheel, triple ball-bearings and a cast aluminum center cartrige. It cost about $200 more than the GT3582, but is well worth the money.

                  Spool-up should be rediculously fast.
                  Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    honestly if your looking for high output turbos with relatively lower spool times you need to really look into the holset family! im using a hx40 with a 62mm compressor and 78mm exhaust side, and i have 15psi at 3500rpm on a builllt 3400/3500 hyrbid, and it pulls hard to 8500!
                    [SIGPIC]
                    12.268@117... 11's to come!
                    turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
                    ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MidnightriderZ24 View Post
                      honestly if your looking for high output turbos with relatively lower spool times you need to really look into the holset family! im using a hx40 with a 62mm compressor and 78mm exhaust side, and i have 15psi at 3500rpm on a builllt 3400/3500 hyrbid, and it pulls hard to 8500!
                      Yikes! You're pulling all the way to 8500rpms? I did the math on a stock stroke motor and came out to a safe 7250rpm. With a destroke and upgraded L-19 rod bolts, maybe a safe 8000rpms. But 8500?, wow. I presume that you're using a steel crank.

                      PS Id love to see a vid of a high rpm run if you ever feel like getting your camera out.
                      Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        only a few pulls that high lol, mainly i didnt have the rev limiter set so it ran high burning through 2nd once..or twice. im trying to keep it to 7500. videos soon! im still using the 3400 crank, deburred/balanced.
                        [SIGPIC]
                        12.268@117... 11's to come!
                        turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
                        ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was originally intending on spinning faster than 7500rpms. However, I never could find anyone willing to go through with the original "destroking" like I had originally planned. Im simply having the crank-pins re-machined. There will be no offset grind to speak of.

                          However, Since I am using 20,000 PSI ARP rod-bolts and knife-edging the crank, I think that I can hold extended output at 7200rpms without any worry. A few short burst to 8000 (aka mis-shift) shouldnt be an issue. (BTW Im setting the limiter at 7500. Thats more than enough "spin" to do the job)

                          Oh yeah... And please hurry with those vids. I cant get enough of the ones you already have floating on youtube. I love that proper engine note.
                          Last edited by Driver_10; 10-06-2010, 10:57 PM.
                          Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well I just typed a bunch of info and got the blue screen just before I hit "post" so I'll make this quick.

                            John, you are concerning yourself too much with keeping the small turbine. Mars is correct, the Holset turbos are the shiz. We used an hx35 on a 2.5l i6 in our BMW race car and thought for sure it would lag with it's large 10cm turbine (about a .83 A/R), but to our surprise we didn't need to add a quick spool device. We were seeing 15psi by 2k-2500rpm and 21psi by the shift point of 6300 using the divided pulses - we beat out an lsx-powered car identical to ours in the auto-x and ran a 12.3@117 on the circle-track Hoosier 275/45-15's and a 2.0 60' (stiff sidewalls, lousy launch for a rwd car).

                            Your motor has more modern (ported) heads and are a full liter larger. The hx35 is almost identical to the Garrett gt35 but without ball bearings (61mm instead of 65mm, but has the same exducer). Many many 3800's have small t4 turbines on them and spool just fine and I have ported thier heads like crazy just to meet up to a stock 3500 flow rate, and I feel you should be more worried about choke than spool time. I would go with the largest t3 you can find, and if it lags, only then add the quick spool, but i have a feeling it will work just fine.

                            EDIT: Your turbo is a Borg Warner, and you can find turbine flow maps for the GT series of turbos on the Garrett link above.
                            Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 10-07-2010, 06:08 PM.
                            Links:
                            WOT-Tech.com
                            FaceBook
                            Instagram

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
                              Well I just typed a bunch of info and got the blue screen just before I hit "post" so I'll make this quick.

                              John, you are concerning yourself too much with keeping the small turbine. Mars is correct, the Holset turbos are the shiz. We used an hx35 on a 2.5l i6 in our BMW race car and thought for sure it would lag with it's large 10cm turbine (about a .83 A/R), but to our surprise we didn't need to add a quick spool device. We were seeing 15psi by 2k-2500rpm and 21psi by the shift point of 6300 using the divided pulses - we beat out an lsx-powered car identical to ours in the auto-x and ran a 12.3@117 on the circle-track Hoosier 275/45-15's and a 2.0 60' (stiff sidewalls, lousy launch for a rwd car).

                              Your motor has more modern (ported) heads and are a full liter larger. The hx35 is almost identical to the Garrett gt35 but without ball bearings (61mm instead of 65mm, but has the same exducer). Many many 3800's have small t4 turbines on them and spool just fine and I have ported thier heads like crazy just to meet up to a stock 3500 flow rate, and I feel you should be more worried about choke than spool time. I would go with the largest t3 you can find, and if it lags, only then add the quick spool, but i have a feeling it will work just fine.

                              EDIT: Your turbo is a Borg Warner, and you can find turbine flow maps for the GT series of turbos on the Garrett link above.
                              done and done. Talked with Marc at TCE and we were both thinking of dropping the "quick-spool" project entirely... Oh yeah. Im actually going to use one of the Comp Turbo "GT35r" knock-off with a T3 1.15 A.R. Its got a billet wheel ($200 option), a triple BB shaft and a water/oil cooled "cast aluminum" center section (My first time ever seeing one). The one demo-unit that they had at the turbochargers.com wherehouse spins so effortlessly that you can blow in it and damn near make the impellor move. Its a bad-assed turbo. Definitely one of my better purchases this year. I ordered mine custom, so Ill post pics of it when it arrives.
                              Last edited by Driver_10; 10-07-2010, 10:05 PM.
                              Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X