Dizzy Vs. DIS v.What's your thoughts?

[Guest]

Raven if you build this thing and can't break it. Imagine the posibilities. The 3800 guys will have to hang their head in shame.

Oh don't worry they will hang thier heads in shame.

It's not a matter of "IF", but when.

[WhiteRaider]

I can make it a DWF file, and you can DL a free DWF viewer from Autodesk to view it. Or I guess I could just make it a JPG...

I downloaded a free .dwg viewer. Unfortunately, the viewer I have doesn't print. That gives me an idea of what it is though. A .jpg format would be nice for printing purposes and posting on the site, but definitely not necessary.

Thanks!

[bszopi]

DWF Viewer...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=4424149

Crank Trigger DWF file...

http://60degreev6.com/CAD/crank_trigger-Model.dwf

[WhiteRaider]

Crank Trigger DWF file...

Excellent! Thank you very much. It's printed out.

So, if I were going to use this trigger wheel on something like a 2.8l RWD engine converting it to MPFI DIS, I would just have to have the trigger wheel fabricated, install it behind the crank pully, space out the other pulleys to match, fabricate a mount for a stock crank sensor so it can read the CPS and wire it into the ECU?

Raven, is this the trigger that you used? Also, does anyone sell these pre-made or is it a one off thing at a machine shop?

Sorry, I think I hijacked this thread and it probably would have been better to start a different one.

[eliteweapons]

I am limited to the transaxle holding together on me thats why I am keeping it down to 456 hp. According to the dyno program I can get 627 hp out of it. Now I just have to find some upgraded cv axles. The crank was 1800 usd.

[Guest]

Crank Trigger DWF file...

Excellent! Thank you very much. It's printed out.

So, if I were going to use this trigger wheel on something like a 2.8l RWD engine converting it to MPFI DIS, I would just have to have the trigger wheel fabricated, install it behind the crank pully, space out the other pulleys to match, fabricate a mount for a stock crank sensor so it can read the CPS and wire it into the ECU?

Raven, is this the trigger that you used? Also, does anyone sell these pre-made or is it a one off thing at a machine shop?

Sorry, I think I hijacked this thread and it probably would have been better to start a different one.

No I didn't use this file (in fact I've never seen the actual file yuo two are discussing, only the ones in the "photo gallery").
Between my grandfather and I, we created our own wheel, using the OEM wheel as a model. We then created an adjustable crank sener mount, I like to make things adjustable, also seeing as I was one of the first to my knowledge to create something like this, for this purpose. I think only Bszopi, created a crank trigger before me, but for a different purpose.

I have not seen any pre-made, though I am considering it, due to the interest I have seen.

No worries on highjacking the thread, the two do sort of relate to one another, and I may even continue to use a crank trigger with a distributer, though I will need to make a new wheel, that only has 6 equal notches with no home notch.

Here's some pics of the crank trigger on my Jimmy, BTW, this went through two summers and a winter and NEVER had any issues with it whatsoever! Very reliable, even with the sensor mounted outside of teh engine.

This is intitial fitting, as you can see the sensor mount was still just rough cut and no notches were cut in the disc yet, in fact the notches weren't cut until after the engine was installed in the truck.


Here it is installed in teh truck, before I fired it for the first time. Youcan see the sensor bracket has been finished and the notches cut.


Here is a side shot, you can kinda see how it fits.



I thought I had more pics, but I don't seem to have them on the server. I will be getting more pics when I pull the engine out in a month or so.

I needed to narrow the bracket that the alernator is monted to, by 1/2" since that was the material thickness we used for the sensor mount. This mount was originally for the A.I.R. pump and would require modification to retain it, especially in that location. FYI, the alternator uses a case from a genII 660 (I.E. Cavalier). Just thought I mention this as it seems like pertinant info.

Yes, the rest of the pulleys needed to be spaced out to compensate, but sincI was building a hybrid and moving belt driven components, it just added to the overall build. My grandfather only had to make a spacer for the H2O pump, for the PS, I used a spacer that came with an MSD crank trigger kit.

[WhiteRaider]

Thanks for the pics Raven. That setup looks very doable.

I've been going round and round about what to do with this swap. I'd much prefer to just swap the 3100 that I have into the 4x4, but the oil pan has me stumped. You can pick up rwd 3.1 and 2.8s for next to nothing a lot of times so the external trigger might be the way to go - just swapping the internals. Of course, if I can get ahold of a 3.4l donor, it won't be an issue.

There was a 3.4 in one of the local pick and pulls a while ago but I put it off for a few weeks and it was gone when I got out there.

Out of curiosity, how much would you charge to fabricate a trigger wheel up? PM me if you don't want to post prices. If you're not ready to start making them, that's cool too.

[bszopi]

If Raven won't/can't do the trigger wheel, PM CNCGuy on here as I'm sure he'd work with you on making one.

[Guest]

Yeah I'm sure he would too. I will have to talk with my grandfather, since he will be doing a majority of the work in the construction of these.

I'm thinking though, if there is enough interest I could get these laser cut and the trun around would be much quicker and possibly cheaper than making each one by hand.

[WhiteRaider]

While thinking about this last night, it occured to me that that this may not be ideal for 4x4 applications. I do some mudding and stream crossing. The water probably wouldn't hurt anything, but getting some mud stuck in the grooves on the trigger wheel might. I can just imagine running through a mud hole and stalling out in the middle of it.

For street vehicles, there would probably be no concerns.

[geoffinbc]

I can get it laser or water jet cut in any material you want.

[Guest]

Mud is not magnetic, so mud in the notches will have no effect.

Besides, a skid plate will keep a good percentage of mud out of the engine bay.

[WhiteRaider]

Good points.

Doh!

[v6h.o.]

Myself, I'm with Ben in the Dizzy and DIS is like Carb vs EFI type deal. I'm an efi and DIS type of guy. However distributor setups do have their place. But I would use the DIS and a Standalone (can program in your timing and be done with it)

Chris, Why not use stock GM LS1 coils? would be a bit more cost effective. I have never looked into how to wire a Coil on plug setup yet at this point so I dont know what else would be involved, The DSM guys go and use Chrysler 300C coils and wire them to work COP. However there is a cam angle sensor used on the 4g63.

If I was to do COP I'd look into the LS1 setup. thats just me.