Dizzy Vs. DIS v.What's your thoughts?

[Guest]

If your engine has a cam and crank sensor then you can run Coil on Plug ignition. You would need a stand alone to support it though.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, currently my engine doesn't have a Cam position sensor (1987 genI block), but it does have a crank sensor.

Cam sensor could be made from a modified distrbiuter that wouild clear the OEM intake.

Part of my concern here though is cost, the only coil on plug set-up I priced out was from MSD, which IIRC was somewhere around $2500, that also AFAIK, is only designed for a V8, since it came with 8 coils, etc.
I'm sure there will be a cheaper way, but then I'd be into two DIS-4s or 3 DIS-2s to give me the spark I want, so even more cost. Hmmm.

What I'm thinking about doing is having both set-ups (Dizzy and DIS) in the truck and be able to swap between them in about a minute, to test both. I could also take the distributer set-up one step farther and keep my crank trigger wheel and use the distributer fr spark only.

[RacerX11]

Re: DIS....

may not work at well. A distributor with a hall-affect switch would be just as accurate.

Not true. With the timing chain, cam, and distributor, you have a lot of slop between the crankshaft and the rotor. No matter how accurate the sensor inside the distributor, it cannot be as accurate as picking up directly off the crankshaft.

[XLR8ING]

Chris, glad you brought this up. I've thought about whether I'd be better off going to a distributor based system as well.
And like you, the custom intake is no problem.

[WhiteRaider]

Speaking of DIS and Raven's external trigger wheel, somebody mentioned on another thread that there is a CAD file floating around for it. Does anyone know where I can get ahold of it?

[bszopi]

http://60degreev6.com/CAD/crank_trigger.dwg

[WhiteRaider]

Mucho gracias!

Since I don't have anything that can read .dwg drawings, how does this trigger wheel work? Does it atach to the front of the crankshaft pulley, behind the pulley, or elsewhere on the engine? If it is fabricated, what is needed to impliment it?

[Guest]

Looks to be between the pulley and damper (for RWD application), if it's a pushrod FWD application it would just bolt to the front of the damper.

[bszopi]

I can make it a DWF file, and you can DL a free DWF viewer from Autodesk to view it. Or I guess I could just make it a JPG...

[eliteweapons]

You could always take it a step further and run an electromotive tec 3 r. That uses its own crank trigger without the cam pos sensor and you can set it up for phased sequential injection. It has tons of options and full adjustment. I am going to use that on my project. What are you going to use for a crank in there?

[Guest]

You could always take it a step further and run an electromotive tec 3 r. That uses its own crank trigger without the cam pos sensor and you can set it up for phased sequential injection. It has tons of options and full adjustment. I am going to use that on my project. What are you going to use for a crank in there?

Yeah I could use a Tec3, but as far as I can tell, it's still wastespark, looks like the same coils we use.

I'm looking at using a 749 ECM with a modified Sy/Ty .bin. I figured that would be a good start since it's a turbo V6, multiport injection, which I believe is true bank to bank (I'll have to look it up again), and use a distributer, to test my theories. Last I checked it was difficult at best to take and N/A .bin and change the MAP to use a 2 BAR MAP, which I want to use, due to boost retard, and possible ECM controlled boost control.

Currently I'm using a 981 crank (3.31" stroke AKA 3.1 crank), From an early '90s 3.1. I am using an external trigger wheel and sensor though. I will be in the future using a 2.99" stroke crank, and if I can find one cheap enough a 3.4 block from an F-body, to create a short stroke 3.1 (bored 0.030" over). I'm hoping to free up some power with the tighter rod throws and even lightening the crank from there, I'd also like to hit 7000+ RPM.
Regardless of the crank I use, I will most likely NOT be using the cast crank trigger, I like the adjustability of the external trigger I have and will continue to use something like this in the future.

[eliteweapons]

Yes it does use the waste spark system but it has a higher output than an msd system. I found a company in memphis tenn. that has billet cranks for the 3100 and will mill the journals and throws to your specs and nitride coated. Mine will be here this week. I am stroking it out to 3.456. On the sportcompact dynosim it drops the lower hp by less than 10 hp but has a good pickup in the mid to upper rpm. I also found that a small increase in the duration has a larger result on hp than the actual cam lift. The supercharger hits its max boost of 17.5 psi before it surges at 6200 rpm with the current pulley. I am going to run factory shift points for the moment and may swap in a transmition computer later if I feel the need for more hp and higher rpm.

[Guest]

Yes it does use the waste spark system but it has a higher output than an msd system. I found a company in memphis tenn. that has billet cranks for the 3100 and will mill the journals and throws to your specs and nitride coated. Mine will be here this week. I am stroking it out to 3.456. On the sportcompact dynosim it drops the lower hp by less than 10 hp but has a good pickup in the mid to upper rpm. I also found that a small increase in the duration has a larger result on hp than the actual cam lift. The supercharger hits its max boost of 17.5 psi before it surges at 6200 rpm with the current pulley. I am going to run factory shift points for the moment and may swap in a transmition computer later if I feel the need for more hp and higher rpm.

Sounds interesting. But I'm trying to get away from wastespark.

I may be interested in getting a crank in the future, since I'm not sure the OEM 2.99" stroke crank will hold true and not deflect when making 100+ HP/ hole. I'm just going to build it with off teh shelf parts for now, see how it works and if it breaks, I rebuild with upgraded parts.

[eliteweapons]

I don't want to take that kind of chance trashing everything breaking the crank. Too much time and money invested in this thing so far. With the billet I don't have to worry about the boost levels or anything.

[Guest]

I hear ya, but I like to live by my sig.

Also when you figure out that the main journals in the '85.5+ 660 are larger than a 400 SBC, AND supported between pairs of rod journals by the main caps, you realize that the load on the crank itself is actually quite low and the twist should be low, due to the design. Hence why I haven't heard of anyone breaking a crank in the later 660, even at 400+ Ft/lbs of torque (Tiago, in a mid '90s turbo Camaro), myself at 300+ Ft/lbs, Curtis at 400+ Ft/lbs, and reports of race built engines that use a rebalanced OEM casting in the 600+ ft/lbs range, though hard to confirm.

What did yourcrank cost you? If it's not too bad I may consider it for a custom stroke, somewhere between 3.31 and 2.99, like a 3.18" or so.

[geoffinbc]

Raven if you build this thing and can't break it. Imagine the posibilities. The 3800 guys will have to hang their head in shame.