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Six_Shooter's money pit and time vampire... v.240Z

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  • Six_Shooter's money pit and time vampire... v.240Z

    So, since I now have the engine mounted in the car I figured it was time to share with the rest of the 60 degree V6 community.

    Where it began

    I'll start back a few years though.

    I originally bought this car to swap an LX9 into, since I had the engine already. Instead I turbocharged the L28 that was in it when I got it. This was not the original engine to the car, but original type and fitment, kinda like going from a gen2 2.8 to a gen 2 3.1 in a Cavalier, or the 3.4 swap that is popular in the S-10 crowd. Same engine design, just larger displacement, though there were many head and block differences between the L24 and the L28, but that's not important to the story.

    So I BEAT the hell out of this L28, 17 to 20 PSIG daily. Yes, this car is basically my daily driver in the spring, summer and fall. I only planned to keep the turbo L28 in the car for a year or two, but that was like 6 years ago.

    This is the turbo L28, that served me well, and pushed the car to a 13.0 ET and many, many miles of smiles:
    IMG_1391sm.jpg

    So earlier this summer I decided it was time to swap an LX9 into my car. I got another one from the local wreckers, along with some other parts.

    I started by building some of the parts needed to install and attach parts to the engine, to get it ready for the swap. Things like alternator mount, headers, modified front cover, etc, etc.

    The plan was to swap in the new engine over my holiday week, since the shop (where I work) was not being used, and had 10 days to use the hoist. That didn't work out...

    My original plan was to keep the original (type) trans that was already in the car. A little more back story, the car was originally automatic when I got it, then swapped in a 4 speed manual, then a 5 speed manual, both manual transmissions were either what would have been it in originally (the 4 speed) or direct replacement/upgrade (the 5 speed). Anyway. I did some measuring for clutch depth and such and it seemed like it was going to work perfectly, depth wise anyway. So I made an adapter plate, but then noticed that the depth didn't look right when I placed the adapter plate on the back of the LX9. Measure again and sure enough I was off. *facepalm*

    Note of advice, make sure you only remove the width of the ruler used for making a straight edge once, not twice... So my depth measurement was off by 25mm :/

    Back to the drawing board

    So I remembered that the 2.8/3.1/3.4 in the F-body used a thicker flywheel, so off to research if it was thick enough. I found one picture online that looked like the flywheel would be a very promising part. It was Sunday of my holidays week, so I couldn't find one that day and figured I'd get one the next day from the wreckers. Think again. Arg!
    There was ONE in Ontario, at another wreckers not too far away, but it was still in the car and they were "short staffed". So I waited, until Wednesday when it finally arrived. Great, I can continue on and hopefully be able to get the engine in.

    Nope.

    As I test fit the thicker flywheel, it became apparent that the increased diameter was too large for the trans I had planned to use. Arg! What to do?

    Plan C, maybe D by now. I had waiting in the wings another trans that I had planned to swap in at a later date. I decided to explore the option to put it in now, even though I didn't have a clutch, shifter or driveshaft for it. Turned out that the bellhousing was large enough for the flywheel, the input shaft is IDENTICAL to the old transmission (Thank you Nissan for keeping some things the same!). Make a new adapter plate, for this different trans. It was Friday of the holidays before I got the engine and trans mated, so I decided it was too late to take the car apart.

    Engine and trans mated for the first time:
    FirstMatingRear.jpg
    FirstMating.jpg

    So now I just needed a shifter and driveshaft. Driveshaft was pirated from a Nissan Pathfinder, because they use the same trans, though configured a little differently, but still no shifter. New one is $148 from Nissan, and I would have needed to modify it before I installed it anyway, due to chassis fitment. I also didn't like where the shifter would end up in the shifter hole and I knew I wanted to push the trans back farther than when it is mated to the L28 in these cars. So What to do? Make a shifter using parts from a 4-speed trans original to the car, why not? lol

    So now I have a clutch (Which still needs some verification on exactly how I'm going to piece the clutch and pressure plate together. More on that later.), a driveshaft to use for the yoke, and a home made shifter.

    Not complete, since it seems I don't have any pictures of it done, but you get the idea:
    ShifterBuild07.jpg

    This might just work

    So there is a civic holiday here in Canada, on the first weekend in August. It's not a mandatory holiday, so some places stay open, other places do not, luckily, we do not. So I decide that as of Friday of that weekend it would be go time for the swap. That's this past Friday, for those keeping track.

    The car comes apart pretty typically. I was trying to drop the entire driveline out the bottom of the car, but due to the engine sitting at quite an angle, this proved to be more difficult than it was worth, so out the engine crane comes and the engine and trans are removed through the top. I then remove the front crossmember, so that I could lower the car over the new engine and trans.

    I HAVE to see the new drivetrain sitting between the frame rails before I go home. Keep in mind I've already mocked up the LX9 in teh car a few years previously, when I pulled the L28 for some maintenance, so I know basically what it's going to look like, but I need to see the headers, and the belt system in there, I just have to.

    Oh yeah, I like it

    It looks great in there, and it looks like I will be able to push it back as far as I would like.

    BetweenRails01.jpg

    It's still on the engine dolly at this point and decide to use a chain between the trans mounts and the engine support to lift the car up and really inspect what I'm going to need to do for mounts.

    But I think this is where I should make it a new post for a new day...
    Last edited by The_Raven; 08-19-2014, 06:23 PM.
    James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
    The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
    1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

    "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

    Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

  • #2
    The Next Day

    So now it's Saturday morning in our story.

    After contemplating what I was going to do about the trans mounts over night, since I discovered that there is a physics issue with the transmission and the car itself, only one object can occupy the same space at a time. The trans is just freaking HUGE, compared to the old trans. I decided the night before to cut out the old mounts and make new, since I didn't really have a choice, and even trimming the old ones wouldn't have been enough. If I wanted to leave the engine and trans more forward I could have made it work, but that just wasn't an option to me.

    I get the grinder with a cutting disc out and start cutting away the driver side mount.

    StockTransMountRight01.jpg
    StockTransMountLeft01.jpg

    Point of no return:
    PointOfNoReturn.jpg

    I spent most of the day designing and fabricating the new mounts.

    NewTransMounts01.jpg

    Sunday, Bloody Sunday

    I then moved onto boxing the old mount brace and then tying the new mounts to the old mount brace.

    OldTransMountBraceBoxed02.jpg
    OldTransMountBraceBoxed01.jpg

    New mounts tied to old mount brace:

    TiedMounts.jpg
    TiedMount01.jpg

    Notice that the right side tie in plate has a notch, yeah, that's to clear the VSS, and if I hadn't put that notch there, the trans would not have fit. It's THAT close to the brace. I'm contemplating notching that brace a little more to give a little more clearance, just for peace of mind.

    Happy with how the trans mount has turned out, I move onto the front mount. Now here is where I break from conventional wisdom in a typical longitudinal layout. Most people would make some plates that attach to the side of the engine block and then tie them into the existing mount pads, or a new crossmember. Not me, nope, I'm going a different route.

    Go back to how the LX9 is mounted in a transverse application. There is a mount attached to the oil pan, just below the crank pulley. I like this idea because I can remove the mount pedestals from the crossmember and open that area up for other things.

    I had planned for this weeks ago and bought a universal Energy Suspension mount that looked like it should work. I had fabricated the plate that attaches to the oil pan a few weeks ago, in preparation. Now to finish it off and make something to attach it to the car...

    Some time later:
    FrontMount01.jpg
    FrontMount02.jpg
    FrontMount03.jpg


    Comparison of modified crossmember to original crossmember (With steering and lower A-arms still attached):
    FrontMount04.jpg

    And the engine supported by the car.
    FrontMount05.jpg

    Tomorrow I will be making some struts to keep the engine upright, since I only have the two mounts holding the driveline right now.
    Last edited by The_Raven; 08-04-2014, 08:47 AM.
    James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
    The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
    1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

    "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

    Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's that Tight VSS clearance.

      VSSClearance.jpg

      Here is a picture of the engine to trans adapter I made, remember this is the second one, the first one will become wall art, to remind me to make proper measurements and calculations. lol

      AdapterPlate.jpg
      James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
      The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
      1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

      "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

      Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't forget that you need to make a 9/16" shim for the starter to use it with the RWD/F-body flywheel. Or do you have a different plan for that?
        '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
        '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by caffeine View Post
          Don't forget that you need to make a 9/16" shim for the starter to use it with the RWD/F-body flywheel. Or do you have a different plan for that?
          Already made.

          There's a lot of detail items I haven't mentioned, because the thread would get even longer and boring if I did.

          I'll likely post some of that detail stuff if there is interest.
          James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
          The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
          1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

          "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

          Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

          Comment


          • #6
            I just realized there isn't a good picture of how it sits right now.

            I'm thrilled with how it fits so far.

            SupportedLX902.jpg

            SupportedLX901.jpg

            I'm using the LA1 upper intake because it's easier to get everything to work, than it would be with the LX9 upper intake. I also prefer the LA1 upper for looks. I don't think I'll really be taking that much of a hit in performance either. If I do, it wouldn't take long to swap the LX9 upper onto the engine, once I made a few modifications.
            James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
            The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
            1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

            "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

            Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The_Raven View Post
              Already made.

              There's a lot of detail items I haven't mentioned, because the thread would get even longer and boring if I did.

              I'll likely post some of that detail stuff if there is interest.

              Believe me, there's interest! For guys like me who are struggling through this, seeing & hearing what others have done before, specifically when it's a LX9-to-RWD swap, is VERY appreciated! And I have to say, I really admire the fabrication skills of some of you guys! Wish I had the ability, tools, and creativity to do that!

              And photos are great! I can't tell you guys how much time I've spent studying the photos posted & comparing it to what I have.
              Last edited by Ghosteh; 08-04-2014, 10:47 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sweet... who doesn't love a good build thread... so few and far between these days!
                sigpic

                "When you don't do anything, you have plenty of time to post questions that don't mean anything tomorrow."
                - Ben

                Comment


                • #9
                  I love the front mount, I may have to steal your idea when the 3500 goes in my s10. Great work

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Are you going to add a torque strut to the top of the engine?
                    '89 Firebird, 3500 Turbo, T56, 9-bolt/4.11
                    '86 Fiero, 3500, 4-speed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looks good! Is it a stock 3500? Or did you do a cam or other internals?
                      1999 Olds Alero 2.4 to 3500 swap (running). totaled by a honda
                      1992 lumina 4 door 3500 3spd auto 15.020 @93.5 mph
                      1984 Cavalier type 10 hatch 3100 5spd!!!
                      14.96@91.47 in the 1/4
                      9.63@74.36 in the 1/8th
                      14.30 on slicks! scrapped due to rust!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ghosteh View Post
                        Believe me, there's interest! For guys like me who are struggling through this, seeing & hearing what others have done before, specifically when it's a LX9-to-RWD swap, is VERY appreciated! And I have to say, I really admire the fabrication skills of some of you guys! Wish I had the ability, tools, and creativity to do that!

                        And photos are great! I can't tell you guys how much time I've spent studying the photos posted & comparing it to what I have.
                        I'll post some of those details later this week. I'm trying to get the car back to running status as quickly as possible.

                        Originally posted by carbon View Post
                        Sweet... who doesn't love a good build thread... so few and far between these days!
                        I don't know how "good" this thread will be, but I will try to show the interesting stuff, along with some of the detail stuff.

                        Originally posted by baktrak View Post
                        I love the front mount, I may have to steal your idea when the 3500 goes in my s10. Great work
                        Likely won't work on an S-10 and I would mount the engine in an S-10 much differently than I did here. In an S-10 the cross member is in the way of the oil pan fitting properly, and one or the other needs to be modified. I have a mount fabrication jig I was going to use to make new mounts for my Jimmy, when I had planned to put a 3400 in mine, but have decided to go a different route with it, if I ever get to it. :/ Thanks for the compliment.

                        Originally posted by caffeine View Post
                        Are you going to add a torque strut to the top of the engine?
                        I made the torque strut today, actually I made two of them. I didn't like the first one, or more accurately the anchor point wasn't as strong as it initially seemed. :/ So I used part of what I already made and moved it lower. The strut I have now is actually pretty low on the engine. It works, but I'll likely do something different, I'm not totally happy with it. I'll post some pictures tomorrow (later today) of the struts, when I have a bit more time to do so.

                        Originally posted by 1QUICKHATCH View Post
                        Looks good! Is it a stock 3500? Or did you do a cam or other internals?
                        Stock 3500, I have some Comp Cams springs to go in, but that's just because I know that's a weak point. Beyond that I want to see how this works in stock form, before upgrading anything. Thanks for the compliment.
                        James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
                        The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
                        1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

                        "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

                        Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          tl:dr

                          Just kidding. So happy to see the dream come to life!
                          Links:
                          WOT-Tech.com
                          FaceBook
                          Instagram

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's about time!


                            Looking great so far!
                            Past Builds;
                            1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                            1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                            Current Project;
                            1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some updates and detail stuff.

                              Front mount:

                              FrontLowerMount01.jpg

                              FrontMount07.jpg

                              First attempt at a stabilizing strut, it didn't work out as well as I would have liked, the strut tower flexed FAR too much, so I had to change it.

                              Strut01.jpg

                              Revised location and strut:

                              Strut02.jpg

                              Y-pipe constructed, and turbo located:

                              TurboMounted01.jpg

                              TurboMounted02.jpg

                              Support bracket for the turbo:

                              TurboSupportBracket01.jpg

                              Headers and Y-pipe done (almost, another detail to add to the Y-pipe, before it's completed).

                              HeadersAndYpipeDone.jpg
                              James: 1985 GMC Jimmy, 3.2L turbocharged, intercooled hybrid 13.873 @ 99.08 218HP & 270FT/lbs @ the wheels
                              The Daily: 2000 GMC Yukon
                              1973 Datsun 240Z: Turbo intercooled LX9, running on '7749 with $59 and DIS. 12.71 @ 115

                              "If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up too much space."

                              Still waiting for the 1st or second Ostrich I was promised, from Paul.

                              Comment

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