If you can't sell them....

[BlueFlame]

Putting money into a car is very rarely something that you'll get out, no matter what the car's style, year, or make. The fact of the matter is unless you are building a show car, it just won't happen. OldSkool's motor and transmission alone are worth the 2500 probably. Look at his setup before you criticism his asking price and you'll see that with his modifications, 2500 isn't top dollar, and isn't what he's put into, especially if you were to put his own labor into that.

[BlueFlame]

Ben, I realize you know more about headers than I probably do but I find it hard to believe that on my dohc 4.6 V8 with close to 500 hp at the flywheel gains 25-30 hp at the flywheel with long tubes and a dohc 3.4 with a less than ideal engine mounting scheme for headers with limited space to run exhaust tubes is going to make 20hp. At best I'm saying 15hp.

Are we seriously going to argue over 5 horsepower?

[patgizz]

none of my headers leak. granted i only have 4 vehicles with them but...

proper gaskets = no leaks.

[gpse3400]

When $1500+ for 10-15 hp comes into play I agree all of this is warrented....For $300 I'd go for some Drag Radials in an attempt to get the most out of the vehicle....As it's not our car, its only a suggestion.

W bodies do not have the space to effectively make headers proper in such ways as long tubes and extra large primarys EVEN MORE so with that engine in there...Fieros are essentially better for it... If anything I'd port the exhaust manifolds if I just had to do something about the exhaust......You could go the Arron route and hack up the frame.... if you like totally hate the car...but deep down I don't think he does. Then there is the O2 situation and the tempermentality of that engine....

Lets get one thing clear. The reasons why we do not have headers and other lovely paraphanalia for these cars is because of Space, practicality, clientel, and the fact that the rest of the world knows of these vehicles and they dont think they are worth it. Particularly cars with the 3.4...When it takes $600 to change the alternator, $500 to do a timing belt, $1,000,000 to fix the brakes(Any car with a PM3), the car being worth $500, and finally the average person driving the car makes $5 a year...you just wont have a totally fantastic aftermarket. Although if you are savvy enough you can make things work....I dont know about this Dr.O'Milzy crapola, but maybe Michiana's Finest person could start a new trend....

[gpse3400]

none of my headers leak. granted i only have 4 vehicles with them but...

proper gaskets = no leaks.

Gaskets are one thing, welded seams are another. Headers don't last the life of the vehicle without being coated or made from stainless, and welded up correctly... I mean really....its not as if Hooker is going to make a set of pipes for the W-body.

[latemodelnewbee]

well cobraCDR if you have ever seen the exhaust manifolds manifolds on a lq1 motor you would relize that a 20 horse+ increase would be on a bone stock motor and much higher on a modified on.
if is just a sedan why are you spending the money for turbo gp conversion

[OldSkoolGP]

I have spoken to the local performance shop in my town. He is estimating ballpark that building a set of headers for my car as the template would be 600-900 dollars. He also said he would be willing to make a jig so more sets could be made on the basis that he'd probably make about 6 sets a year. He's checking his schedule right now to see when he can fit my car in to have everything mocked up. Seems like he wants to get a set made sooner than later, which is good news. If he is going to charge extra to make the jig, I may ask those who want a set of headers if they'd be willing to contribute toward getting the jig made.

[gpse3400]

In all fairness I dont think you need to be an master of one particular engine to know what makes it tick....

[Coyote_Rage]

After the first of the year I would be willing to ponie up some cash towards helping with a jig fund.

[dohcfiend]

It is only worth something if someone buys it.

Since none of you interested buyers have ponied up the money to buy this hot to trot drivetrain well.....I rest my case.

Agreed to certain groups or niche markets such as the folks on this site the car is worth $2500 or over that. Again no one ponied up the money so......

My original point was this: the author of this thread stated he could not sell the car and rationalized to keep it because he stated "it is the fastest N/A Dohc on the planet". All fine well and good then. Keep the car but don't have sour grapes because you did not sell it for what you wanted. Ask Lorenzo how many times I have started a project, gone all the way with it, tried to sell it and LOST money. I don't even want to add up how much I lost on MY Fiero GT. The point is, the market (everyone but W-body or Dohc enthusiasts) is NOT going to pay over book value for an old, high mileage but well maintained car. Rant End.

Ben, I realize you know more about headers than I probably do but I find it hard to believe that on my dohc 4.6 V8 with close to 500 hp at the flywheel gains 25-30 hp at the flywheel with long tubes and a dohc 3.4 with a less than ideal engine mounting scheme for headers with limited space to run exhaust tubes is going to make 20hp. At best I'm saying 15hp. Just a gentleman's bet. Lets see of oldskool comes up with these headers and what they make.

In either case if you do them or do not, I would get some tires and see what the car can do.

1. i agree to disagree, it is worth something to the individual that owns it. by putting money, labor, and research into it makes it worth something even though convincing some1 else of this can be a task.

2. i cannot speak for every1 but i already have a set of headers(that do not leak btw) so there is no reason for me to pony up anything. aside from that i also have different heads on my 3.4 dohc, so his headers wouldn't even fit my application.

3. if i didn't have over that much into my own project, i guarentee i would have bought it. I have 2 projects(which is 1 project too many) and a daily. I only have room for 1 w-body and my gp which i put my own personal time, money etc.. into isn't going anywhere.

I have w-body love but not enough love or space for 2 of them

4. this is not my affair so i am skipping it.

5. again not my affair but ez112 had his 3.4 dohc w/headers dynoed and i believe he put down 12-14 whp on a relatively stock lq1. 15-20whp on a lq1 that is modded up like oldskool's isn't that unrealistic. it is one of those things where we all would have to wait and see.

6. agree.

Taking what i interpeted were a couple cheap shots at gm lead me to believe you were bashing.

let's say i am on a ford forum i own a probe as a daily but have a 550hp trans am and some1 wants to modify their.......ford probe GT. I could say something like "Why would i bother modifying a probe when i could get a ls1 trans am which is on an entirely different scale than a probe and i could go alot faster for alot cheaper with it". honest opinion and like yours would be factual but not well recieved.

how would that fly on any ford forum? like a lead balloon. personally i believe every1 was pretty nice about your reply, probably a nicer response than i would have recieved using a similiar tactic. not looking to fight about it, just showing my POV.

[OldSkoolGP]

I agree, drag tires will help some. I already cut a 2.08 60' on stree tires with no wheel spin. The dangerous thing becomes how high RPM do I launch. I'm already launching at 3500. My fear is if I go much higher with tires that are guaranteed to hook the clutch will just get burned up. Guess I'll find out next year. I agree that headers may only add 20HP, but they will also allow me to take advantage of bigger throttle bodies so I can get more air in, which in the end will result in more power overall. We'll have to see. I'm around 260 at the crank now, My goal next year wil be that holy grail of 300.

[CobraCDR]

1. i agree to disagree, it is worth something to the individual that owns it. by putting money, labor, and research into it makes it worth something even though convincing some1 else of this can be a task.

2. i cannot speak for every1 but i already have a set of headers(that do not leak btw) so there is no reason for me to pony up anything. aside from that i also have different heads on my 3.4 dohc, so his headers wouldn't even fit my application.

3. if i didn't have over that much into my own project, i guarentee i would have bought it. I have 2 projects(which is 1 project too many) and a daily. I only have room for 1 w-body and my gp which i put my own personal time, money etc.. into isn't going anywhere.

I have w-body love but not enough love or space for 2 of them

4. this is not my affair so i am skipping it.

5. again not my affair but ez112 had his 3.4 dohc w/headers dynoed and i believe he put down 12-14 whp on a relatively stock lq1. 15-20whp on a lq1 that is modded up like oldskool's isn't that unrealistic. it is one of those things where we all would have to wait and see.

6. agree.

Taking what i interpeted were a couple cheap shots at gm lead me to believe you were bashing.

let's say i am on a ford forum i own a probe as a daily but have a 550hp trans am and some1 wants to modify their.......ford probe GT. I could say something like "Why would i bother modifying a probe when i could get a ls1 trans am which is on an entirely different scale than a probe and i could go alot faster for alot cheaper with it". honest opinion and like yours would be factual but not well recieved.

how would that fly on any ford forum? like a lead balloon. personally i believe every1 was pretty nice about your reply, probably a nicer response than i would have recieved using a similiar tactic. not looking to fight about it, just showing my POV.

Thanks. I was not bashing GM I was just saying rather bluntly, these are GM cars W-bodies at that. There were hundereds of thousands of them made and even to this day in 2007 you can still find 1988's for sale. Other than maybe a TGP or international pacecar or whatever there are not many rare W-bodies that bring in top dollar with high mileage and age. I would think that you guys would know this seeing you all own them. I never bashed GM other than 3 fords the other 7 cars I have owned have been GM.

I never said all headers leak, but many of the one offs do. They are a pain to work around and take up a lot of room in the engine compartment.

2.08 sixty is good for a street tire but if you are pushing 260 at the flywheel like you say, with a good clutch and good tires you should be able to get a 1.9 sixty maybe even a 1.8. Are you spinning off the line now.

I'm glad you agreed that tires would be a worth while investment because they are. You can make all the power in the world but if you can't get it to the ground you are not going to see a big improvement in your time at the track.

When my cobra was stock the best I could get on street tires was a 13.3. I got some et streets and the second time out I ran a 12.9. I would not expect you to see the exact same improvement but remember .1 in the 60' only compounds over the way to the traps. that .1 could mean .2 or more off your time.

Good luck with the grounp buy.

[OldSkoolGP]

I appriciate the input, but this is getting off the topic of the thread. I want to stay focused on getting the headers made first.

[OldSkoolGP]

Good news. I have spoken to the guy at the shop that can make the headers. He has spoken to his buddy and he would be willing to make a jig once the headers are mocked up. I won't be able to get the car into the shop for 1-2 months, but progress is progress.

[Coyote_Rage]

Like I said before, i would be willing to help with the jig fund if needed.