Reading/ Reflashing 29F chips - electrical gurus?

[SappySE107]

plus a subscription for a puzzle already assembled.

What does that mean?

[Superdave]

If you can get the chip out, i know for a fact that it can be read. It's in the library of my Topmax burner.


i think this is a step in the right direction, we just need someone who will disassemble the binary and write a .xdf for it. tunerpro FTW!

[chri0029]

Wow, this tread is going in an interesting direction. My point before was only was that yes, OBDII reprogramming is a niche market right now. And, yes, there are a few with privileged information making a lot of money right now. However, I am very familiar with the insides of automotive industry, and it is not very difficult to do what we're trying to do. But what we haven't quite found yet is the 1 piece of key information that allows us to do it. It is there, it will just take some time to find. But once more people hold the secret, prices will come down to a more realistic level (for me and a few people at least). Some people don't mind spending thousands of dollars on their vehicles (custom engine work), so $500 is a small price to pay for tuning. But $500 times many people has got to be a cash cow for a small secret. Eventually more will hold that secret and then OBD III will come out & the cycle will continue. But for now, this is a hobby for a few of us. I have a piece of the puzzle, Planet has another piece, Demented has a piece, and others may have the final piece. I'd rather help put the puzzle together and learn from it rather than pay once heavily plus a subscription for a puzzle already assembled.

[SappySE107]

I think it would be a fair statement to say that at least some of the OBD-I information that you built your buisness and knowledge base on came from the DIY community, no?

With that in mind, can you see how some people might be just a little irritated?

Hmm, about the same lines as I can speak english because others taught me how. I learned how to tune from reading what others had done...or I should say, I learned the ideas behind tuning. I learned how to tune from testing, retesting, starting over, etc. Months and over 100 tests to get my modded 3.1 to run really good. Years to get my skills to where they are today. Do you think I owe the DIY-EFI community for teaching me how to tune. I don't. They didn't crack any code for me. They taught me where to start. I would thank them, but they shunned me once I started offering my services to others that didnt want to invest what I had invested (time), and wanted something that worked. I have something no other company has. A quality OBD1 60V6 chip. No one gave that to me.

[dimented24x7]

I refuse to read HPT forums. I have no idea who to believe, and so I will skip the bullshit and learn from what I know from my OBD1 experience.

And this is why people sharing information is so important. Knowledge is what allows you to sort out all the BS from the meaningful stuff. Selfish pilfering is what squelches that knowledge.

[dimented24x7]

So I was correct with my observation.

Insofar as observing that someone your talking to in the US might be an American. I dont necessarily hold all the same views as others.

My main point is that its dishonest and underhanded to take someone elses information given with the intent of it being for the general community's free use and using it for profit. If everyone does this, then the information just wont be there one day. I think it would be a fair statement to say that at least some of the OBD-I information that you built your buisness and knowledge base on came from the DIY community, no?

With that in mind, can you see how some people might be just a little irritated?

[SappySE107]

So I was correct with my observation. I shared the info I had (the A1 and DF files), which was given to me by someone else, who was given the info from someone else. It was my choice to share it with the internet. Imagine how much of the market I could have cornered in time had I not done so. I learned a lot though, and whlie I have DIYers competing with me, it is the time that I have put into tuning that makes the difference. Dave knows well enough how that works

I refuse to read HPT forums. I have no idea who to believe, and so I will skip the bullshit and learn from what I know from my OBD1 experience. It does not surprise me with what is being said, but it doesn't help me any. I started a business because I wanted to do this for a living. If you do not want to have others use your information, don't share it. As such, I do not post my porting secrets. I don't know what to tell you.

[dimented24x7]

That has been a long played out situation that is like beating a dead horse.

That is why,in my opinion, it is better to move forward and try to create an alternative than dwell on it.

Thats my feeling as well. Its a lot of sour grapes with some of the others, but if we dont share, then theres no community. So its a risk worth taking IMO.

[dimented24x7]

Reading back on the history of early OBD2, there were many sharing info, only some are receiving the money for the efforts.

And the problems that stem from that are when the efforts are made by DIYers, that are then used by others for profit. For a while, that sort of thing just KILLED the DIY community. Thats not just biting the hand that feeds you, its chopping it off, grinding it up, and selling it as fish bait.

More generally, I for one like having alternatives, and like the free information exchange. It makes things not only cheaper, but much more interesting when you can get involved yourself as opposed to having to pay someone else to do it.

[Weatheralls Auto]

I have read through the entire available archives at HPT (and more) and I mean every post.

I have seen first hand what dimented is saying, he was one of many who shared his info.

That has been a long played out situation that is like beating a dead horse.

That is why,in my opinion, it is better to move forward and try to create an alternative than dwell on it.

I and others who are helping are just trying to help the community.

[dimented24x7]

How do you think any of us could do OBD1? You can say what you want, but if there is demand, there will be people selling a product. You are ignoring a huge investment in time to make use of that information to benefit from that code. I would guess you are from the DIYEFI group, as they share that point of view.

Thats a rather broad sweeping statement on what I believe, based on an observation that I made.

Many of these companies started out as a few DIYers, who, once they have the information they need, shut the door, put out their shingle, and set up shop. Many companies have started this way, and its not really fair to those who where kind enough to give some of these people the info they needed, only to have it used for profit. If you dont believe me, see HP-Tuners archives. Once they had the basis down for how to reflash the PCMs, the exchange of information ceased.

As for the info obtained from the manufacturers. If its leaked, then really its not their intellectual property. That would be kind of like a company in China stealing the plans for a Boeing 777, and manufacturing it as their own. Now, obviously its up to the auto companies to take any action. But, without that info, there would be a lot less support from the for-profit guys then there is now. The bulk of the needed work is in the info on the PCMs. That information is very hard to get just by reverse engineering alone. I can state that from experience. To get the calibration information by those means alone would at least take an order of magnitude more man hours than whats put into the software package development.

Anyway, I digress...

[SappySE107]

i was talking to dimented actually.

[Weatheralls Auto]

Def not what I am saying.
They have hard work involved and can sell it for what they want.

I too will have alot of work involved, and it will be my choice to give it away.

Reading back on the history of early OBD2, there were many sharing info, only some are receiving the money for the efforts.

I am willing to do as much work as I can and encourage anyone/everyone to help.

Just like it is fair and free enterprise to sell something there is a demand for, it is the same for competition to keep prices in check.

In no way I think I will every be inline or comparable to HPT or DHP unless there are others to help, but some sort of competition or alternative is always good.
IMHO that is what both the US and Canada have been built on.

[SappySE107]

How do you think any of us could do OBD1? You can say what you want, but if there is demand, there will be people selling a product. You are ignoring a huge investment in time to make use of that information to benefit from that code. I would guess you are from the DIYEFI group, as they share that point of view.

Perhaps I should give away my porting secrets. I didn't cast the heads, so who am I to make money on modifying them.

[dimented24x7]

2 per vin for 60*V6 etc, 4 for others like LS1 I believe for HPT.

So some will be $160, not saying one program is better than the other, just that it seems expensive.

This is why I am trying to make an alternative, may not be as easy or efficient as HPT or even DHP, but more for the DIY.

If I can make an Open Source alternative for $100 - $150, if it takes longer or is not as efficient, I think it will not only benefit the community but force the others to lower their prices? would you not agree?

This is what Ive been working towards as well. The info is out there to do fully functional DIY tuning and flashing. Its just a matter of pulling it all together. I know that programs like TunerPro work well to tune the PCM. Ive used it to tune my vortec PCM. Just need the info to construct the definitions and the hardware/interface to do the reflashing. The hardest part is the definitions. I did the vortec PCM from scrach, and that was a pretty challenging task to map it out just by examining the hardware and code.