Best 3400/3500 site for modification

[Jonpro03]

No. Read my post please.

I wonder if OP is still around...

You must have missed the LOL at the beginning of my reply! Sarcasm is implied!

[Dallas3400]

Yup still here. Just spectating the debate. I will most likely purchase from both companies. Both offer items that the other does not.

I appreciate the intense debate. Really brings out good answers

[HOYS]

LOL, You're saying that his numbers are so good that you don't think it's possible.

No. Read my post please.

I wonder if OP is still around...

[pocket-rocket]

I've seen both companies products side by side. Head porting, ported manifolds... Even to the untrained eye there was a big quality difference, even to someone who isn't a pushrod guy. Heck, my wife would have been able to tell which were better and more consistent port to port, and all she cares about in a car is that it gets her from point A to point B. I know for a fact Ben spends about 80% of his waking moments at home working on 60v6 stuff. If he says this part flows this and that part flows that, I'm going to take it to the bank. I know Ben on a personal level and he isn't one to exaggerate anything, even to make his own company look better than the competition. He should be called more of an extremest than an enthusiast considering the small amount of people in the market he caters to, and it's because he has a love for these engines, not the love to make tons of money.

[Jonpro03]

but I do think that some of his numbers are a bit...played up.

LOL, You're saying that his numbers are so good that you don't think it's possible.

[SappySE107]

I used a flowbench to design my parts for the 60V6 engines. MMS did not. That is really all there is to it. Over 1300 flowbench tests for 60V6 engines since I started in 2004. If you believe guessing is going to produce better results than 1300 flowbench tests for these engines, then there really isn't anything I could possibly say to you to convince you otherwise. I will simply have to rely on the results of my customers.

Telling me my numbers are biased is basically calling me a liar.

[HOYS]

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/46701-Comparing-port-work-and-results?p=425274

These numbers. You only use your numbers from your flow bench and do not publish the numbers that have been seen on somebody else's bench or go to an independent shop to get numbers. I don't like that approach to business, some might be cool with it or just not care.

Your argument for the part quality being different is hard to follow. I'm guessing you used a flow bench to research your design but then another company used somebody else's flow bench to get numbers after they completed the work? So if you don't do everything in-house then your company is bad? Outsourcing to a third party to get unbiased numbers is bad?

To date I have not seen any "numbers" from either side of the porting intake argument as to which flow better or which are better. All I have seen are pictures of work done by one company or the other saying "HEY LOOK AT THIS"... Nothing solid there.

I'd rather quit the silly argument over this (since it has cropped up between you and I frequently) and just support the users of the site. I tried to post some valuable information for the OP of this thread but it got hijacked by this stupid argument. In all honesty, one of the main reasons I would order parts from MMS over WOT is that I have seen quality first hand from him on just about every project. If I was around WOT's business all of the time, my opinion might be different, who knows. All that I know is that I have seen quality from both companies and would do business with either in a heartbeat.

Also, for OP: If you are swapping the 3500 into the Impala, Mike from MMS has lots of experience personally doing these kinds of swaps in his shop and has a vast amount of experience with the W-Body platform.

[SappySE107]

I have never ordered a part from WOT-Tech so I guess I do not have much to compare with. I have personally seen some of Ben's (WOT-Tech) port work and it is excellent...but I do think that some of his numbers are a bit...played up.

Which numbers?

You compare price, but you are also implying that my ported manifolds are the same as MMS ported manifolds. They are not. One company uses a flowbench to research their design, and the other outsources for flow numbers after the parts are done. If you believe that guessing is as good as research, then shop by price.

[HOYS]

I didn't think we were talking about company image, we were talking about the quality and speed of the work done at a shop.

Mike does great work speedily when paid for. I have witnessed it multiple times while at the shop. A Grand Am 3500 swap done in less than a day when the customer drove from NY all the way down to Ohio to MMS to have the swap performed.

A lot of people in the GA and 60degV6 community also forget that Mike does lots of other work outside of the 60DegreeV6 market. He started with 3800's and still does lots of work for those engines.

I have never ordered a part from WOT-Tech so I guess I do not have much to compare with. I have personally seen some of Ben's (WOT-Tech) port work and it is excellent...but I do think that some of his numbers are a bit...played up.

Either way you go, MMS or WOT-Tech, I'm sure you will get a great product. See who has the best deals out there for what you need and go based on that. You want an assembled 65mm billet TCE throttle body? Its 229.99 at WOT-Tech or 239.99 at MMS. Seems like you should buy from WOT since its cheaper right? Well that 239.99 price is assembled and the WOT price is not assembled. You have to pay 60 extra through WOT to have the TB assembled.

Do you want a port and polish intake manifold set for your 3400 engine? WOT: 294.99, MMS: 299.99 (269.99 date of post, on sale). Go with WOT price because its five bucks cheaper...yeah? Do you want your plenum opening to work with that fancy new TB you ordered? 10 bucks more through WOT...included with MMS price.

There are a few things to consider in choosing a shop to buy parts from. I've highlighted a few that I've found in my experience so you can get the best deals out there. Some of them are finite, but can save you cash in the long run.

[riceburner2006]

I go to Mike's shop a lot. The cars that have been there for awhile are customers that have not paid him. Would you do the work for somebody if they didn't pay you?

Mike recently did a 3400>3500 GA swap in one full day and has had some big projects that require a lot of time.

Oh, and watch because hopefully here soon there will be a new MMS website.

Whether some has paid him or not...seeing the same car in the shop doesn't help the image...its different for sum1 who is there often vs. Sum1 who jus went once or so.



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[MY91GT(Z)]

well look at the p[ost before your even though it was paid in full

[HOYS]

I've been to mikes shop and seen alot of his installs and he does great quality work....buuuuuttttt on the other hand, he's had the same car there over a year, he takes forever to do his work and doesn't keep up on his site at all.

Sent from my DROIDX

I go to Mike's shop a lot. The cars that have been there for awhile are customers that have not paid him. Would you do the work for somebody if they didn't pay you?

Mike recently did a 3400>3500 GA swap in one full day and has had some big projects that require a lot of time.

Oh, and watch because hopefully here soon there will be a new MMS website.

[riceburner2006]

I've been to mikes shop and seen alot of his installs and he does great quality work....buuuuuttttt on the other hand, he's had the same car there over a year, he takes forever to do his work and doesn't keep up on his site at all.

Sent from my DROIDX

[robert 1980]

I had milzy custom make my headers.And they took him 9 months to ship them to me.Don't get me wrong they did turn out nice but took forever.Onces i figure out if i want to do a hybrid or a full 3500 im going to have ben's parts on it.I wouldn't do business with mp racing either.

[Alxsmt]

wot-tech is the way