cam shaft swap help

[60dgrzbelow0]

3-5 isn't enough, i always run full pressure.. 100-120. You do not want the valve to drop down when taking the spring off.

120 PSI in 1 spark plug hole is not enough to rotate the engine.

Ouch...

Dave is right... Dammit... I keep thinking about working this job with the engine mounted on an engine stand... with no drive train to offer resistance to the heavy PSI load as it will when doing this fix with the drive train locked and parked.

(My Bad...)

[Rootie524]

even the debris in the intake valves should still be fine?

[1988GTU]

It'll be fine. Your next couple oil changes should catch any debris that doesn't burn up or exit through the exhaust ports.

[Rootie524]

well i replaced the springs and it wasnt as hard as i though. i put a valve spring compressor on and if i saw that the valve had alot of play, before i took the keepers out, i turned the engine with the camshaft bolt (timing chain was connected to the crank so everything was in sync) until the cylinder of the valve i was working on was all the way up so it could not fall. worked very well. lifter springs were changed and reinstalled with new metal LIM gaskets, custom pushrods were put in, rocker arms were put back and everything now is going back together. I now know why my car overheated sometimes..some of the hoses and ports the coolant goes through was blocked up..very disgusting. when its all back im going to do a quick coolant flush to get the rest. and im happy i did this because my crappy plastic LIM gasket was about to go..the coolant part was deteriorating and almost getting in the oil. crisis averted. anyway, so now i have new timing chain and sprockets, new cam, new lifter springs, new push rods, new valve springs, a new water pump, and new thermostat with all new gaskets..soon to have a coolant flush and run some seafoam through the engine oil then change the oil again. so im giving my malibu the 100,000 mile makeover it deserves.

its 95% put back together and ill know if it starts tomorrow. only concern i have so far is when i removed the fuel injectors there was some dirt around them that went in the holes and is resting on top of my valves. will that screw anything up..its both in my intake and exhaust valves..im guessing the exhaust will get blown right out so no big deal..but the intake? am i screwed?

[Superdave]

3-5 isn't enough, i always run full pressure.. 100-120. You do not want the valve to drop down when taking the spring off.

120 PSI in 1 spark plug hole is not enough to rotate the engine.

[95Grand-Am]

Where did you buy the cam from and what are the specs if you don't mined me asking?

[60dgrzbelow0]

Are you changing the springs with the heads still bolted on the block? If so, feed some 1/4" rope into the cyl (while at BDC), then rotate the engine slowly until the rope hols up the valves, or you will have to remove the heads to get the valves back out of the cylinders.

You can also use a fitting in the spark plug hole and fill it with air from an air compressor.

Don't go crazy with using too much air pressure here...3-5 PSI from a full and constant and reliable air tank supplying the pressure on the inside of the cylinder is sufficient to hold them valves flush against their seats for the time it will take you to replace the springs and keepers. If you use high air pressure...you might develop enough PSI to cause the piston to head downward...and should the valves suddenly lose their seals...they could slip down inside the cylinder..out of sight...but not out of mind...which is what you will be if this happens...

[ForcedFirebird]

Are you changing the springs with the heads still bolted on the block? If so, feed some 1/4" rope into the cyl (while at BDC), then rotate the engine slowly until the rope hols up the valves, or you will have to remove the heads to get the valves back out of the cylinders.

You can also use a fitting in the spark plug hole and fill it with air from an air compressor.

[Rootie524]

bent pushrods..not good. lol.

so just to double check cuz i dont want to mess up. i can take the rockers off, replace the springs, and pushrods and liftersprings and my vavles wont move and wont need to be adjusted at all? i only am unsure because some springs are depressed more than others so its all in a certain order and i dont want to mess that up. but if the valves do move when i start it does it fix itself?

[CNCguy]

In case no one has said it before, be sure to install the pushrods in the correct locations and properly torque the cam gear retaining bolt. Either can be a very costly mistake resulting in bent valves and/or pushrods like the ones below.

[bszopi]

No, you don't have to. They are talking about valve lash, but with your engine setup, all you need to do is put everything back together and torque it all down.

[Rootie524]

ok so i started..and im at the point where i need to remove my rocker arms, push rods, and the bracket above the lifters to get them out so i can slide my camshaft out. I have a few concerns. Couples of my friends say if i do that i will need to do a valve adjustment when putting it back together. I dont really think so because my haynes doesnt say it, the comp cams instructions dont say it, and from what i remember no one i talked to online said i need to.

so my question. will i need to do a valve adjustment. i will be replacing the springs in the lifter, using custom length pushrods and putting on stiffer valve springs. that is it. I'm not taking the heads off to do this..so im guessing the valves should remain in the same place so an adjustment shouldnt be in order. but ive been wrong before. everything is ready to go im just waiting till i find out more about this

[Superdave]

there is no break in for a roller cam. As long as everything has assembly lube on it it'll be fine...

[60dgrzbelow0]

About "re-using" motor oil that is only 300 Miles old... Lets use the same idea with the water you wash your feet with...Do you think it would be wise...since you only used it once on each foot....to save that water and brush your teeth and gargle with it...? The same idea is involved here. All motor oil is cheap and absolutely necessary to be the right type for the conditions involved. If your camshaft came with a bottle or squeeze tube of special lubricant to be added to your motor oil prior to starting up the engine...you had damned well better use it. If your engine has a roller type camshaft and roller lifters and roller bearing rocker arms... you are not likely to need a 20-25 minute break-in period to harden the metal lobes of the camshaft to resist the huge resistance forces that are encountered by either solid lifters of the flat hydraulic one in the VIN "S" engine. The lobes on your roller camshaft are more "elliptical" and the roller metal surfaces manage to distribute these contact lifting forces with much less resistance, friction and wear...not to mention the possibility of handling much higher RPM than their less friction friendly brethren. Nonetheless... the camshaft manufacturer has the final word on what kinds of oils and additives to use and when to change the lubrication and filter(s) to be safe during the break in period. Follow these recommendations...religiously.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Don't be too concerned about screwing up the cam position... There is only one way to install the Camshaft Timing gear into the nose of the Camshaft...an alignment pin takes care of that little detail. Likewise ...do not be concerned about "degreeing" this camshaft with the Stock Timing Set. I cannot speak for your exact motor...which I doubt either needs or uses a Cloyes "True" Double Roller Timing Set as the VIN "S" engines are capable of...but if you did have such an after-market product... they are generally marked on the crankshaft sprocket as either capable of being set to Standard, or +4 Degrees...or -4 Degrees and the Timing Set should come with unique instructions and indelible stampings to clarify which position to choose...one from another as the small sprocket is getting pressed on to the nose of the crankshaft.

Your motor is tuned dynamically by means of sensors mounted to the block that can determine the positions of both the crankshaft and camshaft in order to know when to actuate the EFIs to precisely spray fuel into each respective cylinder and when to cause the spark plugs to fire, either singly or in tandem as each piston approaches Top Dead Center on the compression strokes. These kinds of engines do not generally require the camshaft to be "degreed" since these actions are monitored and controlled by an Electronic Computer Module.

Where you will need to be careful is when you are adjusting the installed lifters, push rods and rocker arms...but not so much with a "roller camshaft" as opposed to engines with flat Tappet hydraulic lifters. There are plenty of other knowing advisers here with engines just like yours that can step in and help you with that part of the process, when the time comes.

The bottom line is... if you make certain that the marker on the small, crankshaft gear is situated at the very top tooth position, pointing up and exactly 12 O'Clock High...and the larger Camshaft Timing Gear marker point is positioned at the very bottom tooth at the 6 O'Clock position as you align the timing chain and adjust the larger gear for this alignment... if you lay a steel ruler next to these two opposing gear teeth...and they are in perfect alignment... you will have done the job correctly. The last thing to do before installing the Timing Chain Damper, Timing Cover and Water Pump... is to follow the process of torquing down any fastener(s) that secure the Large Camshaft gear in place. Use plenty of Engine Assembly Lube on the gear teeth and the back area of the camshaft Timing Gear lubrication plate slots and Timing Chain segments. The aluminum slotted specialty socket tool on the right side of the attached images sells for around $12.00 on eBay and makes aligning the crankshaft with the small gear installed a breeze using a 1/2" drive beam torque wrench to make the necessary slight adjustments in its position.