New kid with a 3.1/3.4 hybrid

[v6h.o.]

I am hoping for 290-300 out of my hybrid. kW, not HP

LOL!

KillaWatts are the cool way to describe power :P

you have 300HP ... so what headers are you using on there? did you custom make them?

what is this about a roller camshaft? where did you get it from? hydraulic or flat tappet? whats the profile on that cam?

Gen 3 blocks are more stout than gen2's...

can i have some popcorn??

[Anonymous]

Yah I'd liek to call BS as well.

Also, I'm almost positive that ALL Grand Prix Special Editions had the TDC 3.4L.

[donk_316]

Ummm Im aiming for 300 HP in my 3.4 /3100 hybrid without boost. Ill give specs if you want them!

[95GPSS]

well the thing is i did spend an assload of money and had it built. with everything i have done after the tuning and everything it will be pushing right around 325 with no headers and strait pipes. it also is a flat tappet cam.

[donk_316]

What kind of intake manifold did you build? What kind of cfm does it flow?

Why no headers? Your running factory exhaust manifolds? You put sidepipes on your car?

[RacerX11]

Do you ever use the name "AllMotor" on any other forums?

Not trying to sound like an ass, but everyone here is going to be skeptical of 300+ HP from a NA 3.4 without some details. There are a lot of people who have put a lot of $$ and parts into these engine, with headers, and they aren't pushing anywhere near 300HP. I can garrantee you aren't pushing 300HP without headers, turbo, or nitrous.

I know you said it needs tuned, but even running poorly it should be what, ~250 HP? Show us some dyno numbers, 1/4 mile timeslips, give us some details. If you don't know the details, go talk to your engine guy and get some. If you spent an assload, it should have some serious parts. Show some pictures.

Marty

[patgizz]

and aaron inserts foot into mouth again...

[SappySE107]

Yeah, my GP SE was a 3.1.

No way in hell you have over 250 with stock exhaust manifolds, i dont care what you have after the manifolds (this applies to NA).

How are you running the SFI with the MPFI cam?

[dbtk2]

If the bottom end in the car is the stock one...its a Gen 3. The Gen 2 blocks aren't as strong, and aren't roller, and as far as I know are very hard to convert to roller...so thats where I am confused about the cam.

What cam do you have? Lifters? Springs? Pistons? I am VERY HIGHLY doubting the 300 horsepower...shit, I'm having a hell of a time getting that out of my Turbocharged & Intercooled 3.1L...I'm only at like 240 right now!

Let me do some basic addition to find your horsepower level...in fact lets even say that your motor started out as the highest horsepower Gen III 3.1L that there was...which IIRC was 175 horsepower and was in the 97+ GP SE's. So anyways we start out at 175 horsepower. Then you put in a cam...lets say its a pretty big cam with lots of duration, and the computer has had all fuel, timing, etc... tables changed to accomodate it. I would guess a very max. of 20hp gain. Now we are at 195 horsepower. So then you bore the pistons .060 over. That adds 6c.i. by my calculations, and also bumps it from 3.1 to 3.2L. 6 c.i. is like 3% of the displacement of the engine...so you add 3% to 195 horsepower and you get about 6 more horsepower...putting you at ~201hp. So the heads were ported and polished to match the cam, I am thinking you might gain 10hp from that..up to a whole 211 now. You put sidepipes on...I doubt it would gain any power with the factory manifolds but lets exaggerate and say it gave you 10hp. Up to 221 now. So what else has been done...even with my overaggerated (IMO) horsepower gains...I still come up 79 horsepower short of the 300 you claim, and 104 short of the 325 you claim it will have after tuning (which I included in my horsepower estimates). The stock manifolds are so shitty that I highly doubt you could push much over 240-250 without forced induction. I think even with my turbo setup the exhaust manifolds are a huge restriction.

Most of us here know that its next to impossible to make that much horsepower without some kind of power adder on a 660, so tell us what you did, show us a dyno chart, some timeslips, a parts list of what has been done to the engine, something like that. I sure as hell wanna know what you did so that I can do it to mine!

Shawn

[v6h.o.]

i dyno'd 163Hp to the wheels with my hybrid combo last year... (equates to roughly 180-190 crank hp)

which is exactly where i feel my engine stands as per HP output.

this is why we are questioning your HP from your engine.

welcome to the site.

[GPXSS]

Sounds to me like another case of "I paid this dude at an engine/performance shop assloads of money and he says It'll have 300hp"

95... look man, we arent bashing you or trying to make you feel bad.. just pointing out that this guy is pulling your leg about what kinda power this engine is gonna make. Id suggest having him provide you something in writing, and if the engine does'nt put down what he says, then he provide you a refund. Sorry to be the one to break it to you but this guy is just telling you what you want to hear for your money.

[jhill98]

Horsepower has nothing to do with any modifications specifically. It is a number calculated from the torque that is being produced at a certain rpm.

A stock 2000 3100SFI making 175hp at 5200rpm, if you were to make the engine flow more air, and make more torque at 5200 the HP number will go up, but if you didn't make more torque at 5200rpm but made the same at 5700rpm meaning that your torque didn't start dropping at 5200rpm, but at 5700rpm the horsepower number would grow.

It is all relative to the amount of air/fuel that can be drawn into the cylinder by the downward motion of the piston, with the intake valve open.
If you take the displacement of 189cubic inches which is a stock 3.1L.

(CID/2) x RPM x VE / 1728 = CFM

At 5200rpm at 100% VE = 284 CFM
At 6000rpm at 100% VE = 328 CFM
At 6500rpm at 100% VE = 355 CFM
At 7000rpm at 100% VE = 382 CFM
At 8000rpm at 100% VE = 437 CFM

Now lets look at a real production 300hp engine.

A 4.6L DOHC Cobra Mustang engine..rated at 305hp @ 5800rpm I used a VE of 92.5% because of all the work that has gone into the engine on a flowbench at Ford.

At 5800rpm at 92.5% VE = 434CFM, and there are many owners that have dynoed there cars and are hitting right around this number, corrected for drivetrain loss.

Now you can really see why 300hp is impossible without a turbocharger / supercharger. With the little V6 with not so much displacement we have to rev MUCH higher to achieva enough airflow to make 300hp.

I didn't even go into the fact that your exhaust needs to flow 80% of that number, without much backpressure, and that the ports in the head need to flow that amount, and also the intake manifold and the throttle body opening, plus the camshaft as to open the valve enough not to hurt flow.

Other than an obvious restriction there are only 2 things that will hurt flow.

1. Sudden expansions
2. Sharp bends

Also roller parts DO NOT add horsepower, they return otherwise wasted power in the form of heat back to the crank so it can be output to the wheels. (i.e. if your engine is in whole making 200hp and you add roller rockers (1.5 regular - 1.5 roller tip) and the amount of heat not generated by the flat rocker rubbing on the tips of the valves is 5hp (exagerated), the engine isn't making 205hp gross, it is still making 200hp, but now your net figure that is output to the transmission is 5hp more.) Only flowing more AIR adds gross horsepower.

[95GPSS]

k well let me talk to my guy about some shit. and i havent dynoed it cuz of the fact that i just finished it and i need to get my new comp for the data links. but my bad it is a gen 2 block with a 3.4 gen top end but let me talk to the guy and i will get back to you guys. and from what he says cuz all he does is build race motors it should be over 300 but i will def get back to you guys about this shit

[jeremy96gase]

More Imput Please!

[extremeskiier728]

tip get it dynoed somewhere where this motor guy is not associated with because his dyno could be shit and it might say what you wanna hear not what it is