If you can't sell them....

[Coyote_Rage]

After the first of the year I would be willing to ponie up some cash towards helping with a jig fund.

[gpse3400]

In all fairness I dont think you need to be an master of one particular engine to know what makes it tick....

[OldSkoolGP]

I have spoken to the local performance shop in my town. He is estimating ballpark that building a set of headers for my car as the template would be 600-900 dollars. He also said he would be willing to make a jig so more sets could be made on the basis that he'd probably make about 6 sets a year. He's checking his schedule right now to see when he can fit my car in to have everything mocked up. Seems like he wants to get a set made sooner than later, which is good news. If he is going to charge extra to make the jig, I may ask those who want a set of headers if they'd be willing to contribute toward getting the jig made.

[latemodelnewbee]

well cobraCDR if you have ever seen the exhaust manifolds manifolds on a lq1 motor you would relize that a 20 horse+ increase would be on a bone stock motor and much higher on a modified on.
if is just a sedan why are you spending the money for turbo gp conversion

[gpse3400]

none of my headers leak. granted i only have 4 vehicles with them but...

proper gaskets = no leaks.

Gaskets are one thing, welded seams are another. Headers don't last the life of the vehicle without being coated or made from stainless, and welded up correctly... I mean really....its not as if Hooker is going to make a set of pipes for the W-body.

[gpse3400]

When $1500+ for 10-15 hp comes into play I agree all of this is warrented....For $300 I'd go for some Drag Radials in an attempt to get the most out of the vehicle....As it's not our car, its only a suggestion.

W bodies do not have the space to effectively make headers proper in such ways as long tubes and extra large primarys EVEN MORE so with that engine in there...Fieros are essentially better for it... If anything I'd port the exhaust manifolds if I just had to do something about the exhaust......You could go the Arron route and hack up the frame.... if you like totally hate the car...but deep down I don't think he does. Then there is the O2 situation and the tempermentality of that engine....

Lets get one thing clear. The reasons why we do not have headers and other lovely paraphanalia for these cars is because of Space, practicality, clientel, and the fact that the rest of the world knows of these vehicles and they dont think they are worth it. Particularly cars with the 3.4...When it takes $600 to change the alternator, $500 to do a timing belt, $1,000,000 to fix the brakes(Any car with a PM3), the car being worth $500, and finally the average person driving the car makes $5 a year...you just wont have a totally fantastic aftermarket. Although if you are savvy enough you can make things work....I dont know about this Dr.O'Milzy crapola, but maybe Michiana's Finest person could start a new trend....

[patgizz]

none of my headers leak. granted i only have 4 vehicles with them but...

proper gaskets = no leaks.

[BlueFlame]

Ben, I realize you know more about headers than I probably do but I find it hard to believe that on my dohc 4.6 V8 with close to 500 hp at the flywheel gains 25-30 hp at the flywheel with long tubes and a dohc 3.4 with a less than ideal engine mounting scheme for headers with limited space to run exhaust tubes is going to make 20hp. At best I'm saying 15hp.

Are we seriously going to argue over 5 horsepower?

[BlueFlame]

Putting money into a car is very rarely something that you'll get out, no matter what the car's style, year, or make. The fact of the matter is unless you are building a show car, it just won't happen. OldSkool's motor and transmission alone are worth the 2500 probably. Look at his setup before you criticism his asking price and you'll see that with his modifications, 2500 isn't top dollar, and isn't what he's put into, especially if you were to put his own labor into that.

[Emc209i]

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062728-2.html also there is a user called emc209i and if you look in his sig there appears to be 91-95 headers on his fiero.

you have my support and good luck.

I do not have headers on my car, I have the stock exhaust manifolds. I am, however, in the process of getting my car to the stage where it will need headers to flow forced induction. I'm still working all of my kinks out the Fiero.

At any rate, I don't think I can commit to a group buy that involves the W- Body because I know that I need a different set for my Fiero. If you can talk whoever into building a second jig and set for my application, I may consider it. I trust my own work alot though, so it would have to look really good and worth the extra cost to have someone besides myself make them.

About the group buy being a bad idea. Why... being in the Fiero community, I see this all the time. And almost every time something like that happens, I wish that I had chimed in and requested said product, because I know that I'll never be able to get said product without building it myself. It provides an invaluable service to us, and very rarely turns out to be a bad thing in hindsight. In the rare occasion that the deal goes south, it's due to the nature of the seller or a rotten builder. I'm pretty sure that I would be able to trust oldskool, and I know you guys will want quality products: So why not do it?!

I applaud your efforts skool, and I think you should get this done! You also have my support!

-Emc209i

[3100 MPFI]

With as much time, and money I have put into my 1988 Cutlass Supreme the car is beautiful, has a straight body, almost fully loaded interior, and when the engine is done, it will have a smooth running 3100 SFI. Even before I blew up the last 3100, with all of those pluses, as well as the fact the car was FAST, I would not have been able to get more than $1000 for the car. That is nowhere NEAR what I have put into it.

I will admit that ford, and Lincoln have caught my eye recently, but as for a car that I want to BUILD, it is GM. I love my Cutlass Supreme, and it is a REALLY nice car, but REALISTICALLY, the only value it has is the value I perceive it to have.

[gpse3400]

An unmolested W -car will go for something.... But mileage and age drop the value big time not to mention the market is flooded with thse cars even today...maybe not so much on Long Island but I know Indiana is chock full of them. Mine has over 180,000 miles and as good as I think it is, I wouldn't get anything for it.... Mechanicnally its faultess but the body, mileage, and the age... I bought it for $200 not running... The 2 months it took to get it square was out of love. Only I will be able to appreciate it, with that said even wild horses would be able to pry it away from me... Yeah that sedan needs some drag tires... I know i could've used them on my old setup.. really short changing the car.... You could so launch at a higher RPM.....

GM Is my choice for the 20th and 21st century. I will never stray.....Well I might stray into a Ford or Chrysler..these days more a Chrysler.....

[SappySE107]

Yeah, 2500 would be a steal if I had the money or room for more vehicles. Id feel bad for paying so little.

He would gain over 20whp with headers.

[toms92gp]

he is rude but he does have a point. i only see 2 parts of it i would disagree with.

"it's a GM"

what's wrong with gm? i like gm, it is one of the greatest car companies in the world.

All I own is gms. I love my gms. I've also owned 1 plymouth and 1 honda accord. I sold the honda just because it was blah, even as a stick it was blah. My plymouth was a just a ragged beater that ended up at the JY.
I think that Gm is one of the better car companys especailly when it comes to making cars that are fun to drive. I think headers would be a good I deal myself. Especially if you have a motor that can make use of it like Oldskools car.

[dohcfiend]

he is rude but he does have a point. i only see 2 parts of it i would disagree with.

"it's a GM"

what's wrong with gm? i like gm, it is one of the greatest car companies in the world.

if you do not like gm, i suggest you go to a different forum.

"but never expect to get what you put into a car back when you sell it" in oldskool's defense he was probably selling it at a huge sacrifice for $2500. if i didn't already have an engine committment of my own, i would have bought it, ripped out the drivetrain, installed it in a 94-96 gp gtp or something 2door and still felt like i got a deal.