How not to post on this forum

[AaronGTR]

I for one don't think we need David back. This was a civil thread until that so called "honda engineer" got here... then it turned to shit. And I agree with Brad. If I where Milzy I wouldn't want a douche bag like that representing my shop. And that guy honestly had NO clue wtf he was talking about.

[ForcedFirebird]

A little introduction of myself. I do work with the shop the MMS shares a building with. We mainly work on import turbo applications. I'm a Mechanical Engineer for Honda of America. I graduated with a BS in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Dayton. I've owned a few 400+ Rwhp cars.

After reading through 11 pages of complete bullshit sputtered out of the mouth theories I've come to the conclusion that maybe 2 or 3 people on here at most have the slightest idea of what they're talking about. Of the people spouting off garbage ass garbage from the mouth, how many of you own fast cars? Truly fast cars, not some 14 second garbage. I haven't seen any of these WOT port jobs and I've seen a few of Milzy's port jobs. If you want a bad ass ported head take that shit to Dave Layer and let him go at them. You'll pay about 3 to 4x as much as either one of these companies being discussed. The heads aren't really what's keeping these motors from making massive power. The reason the "blue car" made such little power on such high boost is the turbo size. It was a 57 trim turbo, not a 57mm. I run a 60 trim on my 2.0 Litre. I think these cars having such large displacement need a 35r or something of the likes. The second problem with these setups, intake manifolds. Rule of thumb for boosted applications is plenum volume should be 1.5 to 2x the size of the displacement of the engine. I'm sure one or two of you on here can do the math in your head; for the rest, bust out the old trusty MS Calculator.

To WOT: Build a car as best you can. Tune it, and go to the track. MMS should do the same. Fuck which car makes the most power. Is this some gigantic pissing match? The only numbers that matter are the 1/4 mile numbers. I've beat 8xx whp cars with nearly half the power. Why? because my car is faster.

Oh wow, you must be quite a character in real life. We built a 12sec 60v6 YEARS before MMS did 12's in his car, and not only was it a street car, it was a Corssica with a big speaker box in it, 17" rims and street tires. While yes the turbo was probably too small on the MMS car, but guess what size was on the Corsica? lol.

In case you didn't notice, the 3500 plenum IS quite a bit larger larger than the engine displacement, but I guess someone fresh out of school wouldn't know that by looking at it. We have been wrenching, fabricating and racing since the early 90's (about when you were born), experience trumps education.

Apparently you missed the entire point of my rant. Fuck flow bench numbers, fuck dyno numbers, all that shit is arbitrary. The car that reaches point B first is the faster car. End of story. I could go on and on discussing flow theories and fluid dynamics and mechanics but porting stock heads is about as insignificant as a cold air intake. I'd be surprised to see more than a 20hp gain. I'm not sure what these heads flow like stock but regardless of who built what, I've yet to see any of these cars do anything impressive for as much displacement as they have.

Um, ok. I haven't seen anything impressive yet. Close friend of mine runs a 12.3 in his CAM ONLY pure stock eliminator 3800 powered Firebird.

If there wasn't 20hp to be had, then I guess when we chat with Vizzard, Brodix, AFR (Curtis) maybe they have been wasting the last 40yrs of their lives making the best flowing heads on any racing circuit.

As far as the 60v6 not having any power, it's funny that the latest generation is powering the 300hp 5th gen Camaro from 3.6liters.

I don't know if I said it before, but he has things to do outside of debating flow numbers on this forum. There are obvious reasons why Ben is here, his business grew out of these forums.

@dskopek:

Flow bench tests do tell you what cam is good to use...this is why MMS heads are paired with a named cam to work together.

Flow bench tests alone only tell you how good the heads flow, not how well the engine will run or how much horsepower the engine will make.

That's strange because the 3500 heads flow more than the 3400 heads stock for stock. All else being equal (except lower compression, mind you) the 3500 heads will make more power simply by flowing better. Even you have done the swap. If the MMS porting is so great, why not put his ported 3400 heads on your engine instead of the top end swap?

Seriously gentlemen !? I am glad this hasnt gone overboard (publicly anyway) and attitudes have been kept somewhat in check I for one believe that depending on the design of the head and the UIM and the LIM together Is where flow numbers, low lift multiangle valve jobs and the cylinder displacement actually put the rubber to the road. I suggest reading "How to Horsepwer Volume 1" by David Visard There is a very good section on head porting Its not about how much material is removed but where and making the valve guide protrusion in the port as aerodynamic as possible. You have to be careful beacuse hogging out the bowl area may not produce great results. In the UIM and the top of the head port , air like water has mass and inertia and will resist changing direction. which means airflow will tend to flow toward the "roof' on a sharp or short turn radius. and high swril numbers can actually can actually help performance and MPG at low engine speeds But at higher speeds actually interfere with the flame front and cause negative results and higher KR and lost econmy and performance Just my .02 I agree partially with the previous post but like other have tried to relate i think it needs to be coupled with the LIM and UIM as a whole for a complete representation of the impact of the benefits A motor gulps air and not in a linear fashion I am here to learn and help if i can & staying open minded

David Vizzard practically invented the flow bench. He often holds speeches on a site I was invited to, there are some big names there as mentioned above. They would have a good laugh at this thread after discussing engine dynamics. Most people reading their advanced engine forum would understand Chinese better.

[bszopi]

Huh?

Either way, Dave speaks his mind on any topic and he surely knows what he is talking about. You are silencing someone when you ban them and delete their post. Banning is one thing because you don't like their attitude on the forums, deleting posts is a whole different subject.

Let me break it down for you... YOU wanted to have a CIVIL discussion. Guy comes on and is uncivil. He gets a warning. He continues to be uncivil, therefore he gets banned. Simple enough. I blame his ban on your request.

Honestly, if I were Mike, and I found out that someone is talking trash on my behalf, I would be here trying to do damage control. I personally wouldn't want anyone like that representing me.

[geldartb]

that was a useless post anyway. the one that HOYS took the screen shot of.

so your buddy is fine with using parts that he has no idea how they perform and how is the flow bench useless. yeah you can port the shit out a head but if it makes it worse then how is the porting beneficial.

keep having people like that represent Milzy and soon enough his business will be crap. I haven't seen Milzy himself in any of these threads and the ones lately have been you (HOYS) playing club Milzy. unless he is going to come here and put his two cents in then i don't really see this continuing any further.

[SappySE107]

undeleted them before you even posted that. Glad you think MMS wants that kind of representation. I thought I was doing him and us a favor.

If anyone besides HOYS thinks we need David on this site, PM me. If you think he is a troll, don't PM me, cause he is already banned.

[HOYS]

Ok HOYS, so um...am I silencing people or are people just in need of not trolling my wonderful site?

Huh?

Either way, Dave speaks his mind on any topic and he surely knows what he is talking about. You are silencing someone when you ban them and delete their post. Banning is one thing because you don't like their attitude on the forums, deleting posts is a whole different subject.

[SappySE107]

It must be a good thing then that I'm not your friend or you customer then. Do you own a fast car? If not then shut the fuck up.

Ok HOYS, so um...am I silencing people or are people just in need of not trolling my wonderful site?

As for head flow and cam, I use head flow with the intake manifolds and TB on, as well as the exhaust. You might be surprised what the Intake/Exhaust flow ratio is when you do that. I also offer a cam selection service to fine tune every application as best as possible. Free with cam purchase. My street/strip turbo cam is well proven now, but we havent created the customer area on the site yet to share all the results we know about.

[bszopi]

lol@ silencing people Ben. Nice try.

If you are lucky, maybe you'll be next. And it won't be Ben doing it...

[HOYS]

lol@ silencing people Ben. Nice try.

[SappySE107]

Should have selected the insult one, but whatever...no big loss cause I just banned you outright. I knew it was a waste of time to send the infraction.

[DavidBaustert]

You have received an infraction at 60DegreeV6.com

Dear DavidBaustert,

You have received an infraction at 60DegreeV6.com.

Reason: Inappropriate Language
-------
this is a waste of time I am sure.
-------

This infraction is worth 2 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=444057

Quote Originally Posted by SappySE107 View Post
Wow. So you beat a car with half the hp, because you were faster. No fucking way.

I am grateful that 99% of my friends and customers don't act like you do.
It must be a good thing then that I'm not your friend or you customer then. Do you own a fast car? If not then shut the fuck up.
All the best,
60DegreeV6.com

LOL!
Adding a suffix to the word "fuck" must not make it inappropriate.

[SappySE107]

So compare valve sizes by comparing chassis setups. You don't know shit, but you are certain its as useless as a CAI. You only know what MMS does and you aren't impressed, but that is important to the rest of us and what has been done to date and what people are doing. Great. So why are you here anyway? You told us you know nothing about these motors, heads, anything and you don't know anything about what I do. Troll?

[DavidBaustert]

Apparently you missed the entire point of my rant. Fuck flow bench numbers, fuck dyno numbers, all that shit is arbitrary. The car that reaches point B first is the faster car. End of story. I could go on and on discussing flow theories and fluid dynamics and mechanics but porting stock heads is about as insignificant as a cold air intake. I'd be surprised to see more than a 20hp gain. I'm not sure what these heads flow like stock but regardless of who built what, I've yet to see any of these cars do anything impressive for as much displacement as they have.

[SappySE107]

It must be a good thing then that I'm not your friend or you customer then. Do you own a fast car? If not then shut the fuck up.

ROFL

[SappySE107]

After reading through 11 pages of complete bullshit sputtered out of the mouth theories I've come to the conclusion that maybe 2 or 3 people on here at most have the slightest idea of what they're talking about.

Rule of thumb for boosted applications is plenum volume should be 1.5 to 2x the size of the displacement of the engine. I'm sure one or two of you on here can do the math in your head; for the rest, bust out the old trusty MS Calculator.

Where are your test results for various plenum sizes?