300HP+

[Guest]

Ok, since it's pick on Aaron day, let me set you guys straight.

Even after reading your reply I'm still waiting to be "set straight".

First off, I never said it was impossible to build a 300hp NA 3400.

You're right you didn't say that.

Yeah you can get connecting rods and pistons that will work, but they don't just drop in. Certain parts need some machining for them to work. The rest of the parts that would be required aren't available yet but will be eventually.

Funny that's what this board is dedicated to, the info on how to modify these engines to work better, by either using custom parts or other parts from other engines/vehicles. And every part is available at this time to build a high power 660, since well it's been done, and will be again.

Then it's a matter of upgrading all the peripheral systems (fuel, ignition, etc) then you have to tune it.

Just a part of ANY engine build, 660 or other.

Maybe someone has done this before for a race boat or something, but when you're dealing with a street car there are other concerns like packaging, fuel consumption, and type of fuel used. It has to fit and you can't burn 2 gallons of nitromethane per mile.

I know what engine you're refering to, but for those of us that want ultimate power, the rest is not a concern.

You're building a street car, not a race car after all.

Funny, I thought I was building a street driven race car, not a race driven street car.

That type of custom stuff costs money too, and the majority of us aren't on a race team budget.

You don't need a lot of money when you know where to look and what needs to be done to make it work.

In fact, the majority of us aren't swapping engines and transmissions like you guys. Most people that are modifying 3400's are doing so in the car they came in and with the stock transmission, because most people don't have another car to drive while they are waiting around for custom parts and their car is taken apart.

That may be, but if you want to make excuses as to why you don't want to do something then you obviously don't want it bad enough, or are looking for a pre-made off the shelf way of doing things.

We prefer being able to put a blower in the car, get the same results, and drive it the next day.

You know, I don't think anyone has said anything negitive about using some form of power adder, hey, look at my avitar, that's the turbo in my Jimmy, that I wanted to prove that through use of mostly stock OEM (and many used) parts, these engines can be made to work very well, I think I'm starting to convince people of this.

Now, if he does manage to get a 3400 making 300hp (at the wheels) and puts it with his 5spd manual tranny in his j-body, I think he'll find out fast the trans isn't as strong as he thinks it is. Not with the kind of torque that engine will make.

Again, I have to laugh, since well it's been proven time and again, the Muncie 5-speed can hold quite a bit of power, Curtis' car for example a turbo 3.1L using a stock Muncie 5-speed tranny (or may it was the NVG equivilant), well it held up to countless passes, and a lot of power before Curtis decided to change it, because it was starting to show signs of wear, I think it did end up breaking something. I know it was in the car with quite a bit of torque for a few years. There are others that have shown the same results.

If he put in a 4T65E-HD (if you can fit them both in a j-body) that would hold it, but the car would be so front heavy it would be unstable.

LOL, an auto? Come on, while that might be good for bracket racing, not very fun and not a great tranny to use for road course or similar driving.

Cars have do more than go in a straight line ya know. That's my educated opinion. Don't like it, tuff shit.

Yes, cars do need to do more than go in a straight line, but some of us are building cars to do that, some of us are also trying to build cars that will do many forms of racing. I don't see an educated opinion anywhere in that post, just a but of opinion, that is pretty much bashing the ideas of others that want to build something that makes plenty of power without using a power adder, or before a power adder is used on that engine.

You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

[v6h.o.]

Now, if he does manage to get a 3400 making 300hp (at the wheels) and puts it with his 5spd manual tranny in his j-body, I think he'll find out fast the trans isn't as strong as he thinks it is. Not with the kind of torque that engine will make. If he put in a 4T65E-HD (if you can fit them both in a j-body) that would hold it,

hmmm. i take it youve never seen or heard of Curtis' turbo 3.1L then...

https://www.turboz24.com

stock 5spd Getrag Manual trans.. coupled to a turbo 3.1L that puts more than "300HP" to the ground yet while doing it with abusive driveline shock Drag Slicks... i believe he used his stock trans with this combo for about 4 years straight before it finally gave out and blew the diff pin through the trans bellhousing.

the 4T65-E isnt all its cracked up to be. i know the Intense racing guys like to claim its the best trans.... and it does take a heap of abuse. but then you have to remember that the only reason the "300HP" Northstar engine wasnt alowed to make anymore than 300HP was because reliably the 4T80E cant take much more than the amount of HP before it starts having issues. (and thats a big trans!) now i know that this is comparing Stock transmission parts. but,
the Muncie/Getrag trans has proven that they can take a fair amount of abuse.(fiero owners back them behind LS1/LT1 and all other SBC's under the sun)

we're not "picking on you" either.
i was only replying to stuff you had posted thats all.

i like this part of your post however:

In fact, the majority of us aren't swapping engines and transmissions like you guys. Most people that are modifying 3400's are doing so in the car they came in and with the stock transmission, because most people don't have another car to drive while they are waiting around for custom parts and their car is taken apart.

you honestly think that these cars are not OUR daily drivers as well??
LMAO... for the last 3 years in a row. i have been without my car for anywehre between 1-3 months at a time in the summer due to swaps, repairs, upgrades and whatnot... Two feet and a heartbeat, that and the G/F's Jeep, and rides from buddies is what gets me places when teh sunbird (my summer daily driver) is down.

i guess because our car isnt brand new it must just be a hobby car :P

silly aaron :P (yeah now im kinda picking on you, all in good fun man)

as to the parts. there are parts available, there are places to get parts from, like raven said, "you just have to know where to look"

i dont see how building a 3400 with forged pistons and a few other goodies is any harder to find parts than compared to a 2.4L Twin Cam engine... now if you compare to a SBC well yes. we're pretty sparse for parts compared to them.

going and playing with engines requires, planning researching and in most cases as long as your not one of the "sheep" like alot of guys are and look for off the shelf parts, its just the same as if you were building any engine really. take measurements of the parts needed, or send in cores. get what you need made and build it up.

i like a few of the guys on here want to go the N/A route.
note my N/A 3.1L puts down fairly similar 1/4 mile times to your 3400 boosted :P (yes now im picking on you)

[v6h.o.]

EDIT i guess me and Raven were posting at the same time... hehe. similar responces eh...

[bszopi]

Curtis went through several sets of halfshafts prior to blowing the tranny. So the 5-spd can handle the power better than most any auto can.

[BerettaMX]

ok no offense to anyone but... If you cant find the right parts to build your motor and you dont have the expeierence to build it then dont! I'm sorry Im a mans man, and if I build my motor that means I am doing everything except machine work. Why trust some dipshit at machine shop to build your motor when you know you can do everything yourself. And Aaron you said you have to experiment to build it the right way for it to work? I'm sorry but you build a motor to do what you want it to do and if It doesnt work then you messed up. But there are plenty of parts out there so no excuses on that one

[v6h.o.]

Curtis went through several sets of halfshafts prior to blowing the tranny. So the 5-spd can handle the power better than most any auto can.

I have a piece of the latest half shaft that blew. a ball bearing from one of the CV joints that fell out on breakage... i keep it in my ashtray of the sunbird for good luck :P

i remember reading the posts years back about the first time he "grenaded" one of the tripot joints. just shattered on the line! fun stuff.

[ikessky]

Guess I got here a little too late, but I may as well put my two cents in anyway.

Now, if he does manage to get a 3400 making 300hp (at the wheels) and puts it with his 5spd manual tranny in his j-body, I think he'll find out fast the trans isn't as strong as he thinks it is. Not with the kind of torque that engine will make. If he put in a 4T65E-HD (if you can fit them both in a j-body) that would hold it, but the car would be so front heavy it would be unstable. Cars have do more than go in a straight line ya know. That's my educated opinion. Don't like it, tuff shit.

Here you're just confusing two different people. v6h.o. has a J-Body with a 5 speed. The car I'm talking about is a W-Body that already has a 4T65-E trans.

This brings me to another point about the transmission. I would like to have a manual, but am just not in the point in my life to do that swap. For my driving purposes (to work and back and maybe the occasional 1/4 mile pass) an auto suits me just fine. Besides, my W-Body is just to big and bulky to do any form of auto cross. I would rather concentrate on my engine build (and all the necessary components) and just go with a transmission that has kind of been proven already. Don't kill me for this, but look at some of the 3800's these guys are running. They have well over 300hp and their 4T65E-HD trannies are doing okay with that. I think I'll be fine with the HD tranny.

Aaron, I'm not trying to pick on you. Just reading your posts in this topic, you seem to not understand what some of these other guys have done.

[AaronGTR]

You guys just don't seem to understand that what works for one person might not be possible for someone else. I"m not going to waste my time explaining anymore because you'll never understand.

[ikessky]

I do understand where you're coming from, so don't just throw out generalized statements like that. There are some people out there who will never use any form of boost and that is their plan. Doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it wrong. You build your engine how you see fit and they can build their's how they see fit.

Stop with the humble-bunny/Eeyore routine though........

[Manitcor]

everyone has thier own route, I went for boost and decided to take it off for now. Ive swapped up to the 3400 and am going to work on building it up over the next year so that it is capable of taking a good amount of boost. Till then im going to shoot for about 240 HP in a setup I hope to pull it off where when its time to boost, I just rebuild the bottom end and change the heads out for boost ported heads. Then I hope to make upwards of 350+ once all the tuning and supporting mods are done.

And yes my car is my daily driver.

Everyone has thier own goals for thier projects, power adder or na we all have the same goals to complete our projects.

[AaronGTR]

Stop with the humble-bunny/Eeyore routine though........

wtf?

[Manitcor]

Stop with the humble-bunny/Eeyore routine though........

wtf?

Ok, since it's pick on Aaron day,

You guys just don't seem to understand

nuff said

[ikessky]

Manticor hit it right on the head!

[TurboZ24]

See, I think Colin forgot to mention that he blew that CV joint while driving my car...

I can't wait to see how the tranny holds up when we replace the pre-turbo exhaust, turbo, and finally go for more than 12 psi boost (11's here we come). Probably go for like 18-20 at first, then eventually the 25 psi maximum. I know the tranny isn't going to take it for long....

[BerettaMX]

Well it looks like you and I will be finding out together. Im glad we had that broken parts talk I think it was very informative for both of us. Let me know any new tranny news as will I to you.